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  1. #501
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    The Writers vacancies have been absorbed into the Executive Branch (Seamans) so the majority of vacancies in the Personnel Management Section are now filled by Seamen. Same to be said of Drivers. The daily admin is done by units now with PMS responsible for the major admin.
    So the NCO appointments for writers went to Executive branch? possibly explaining the wealth of SCPO ranks with in the division?
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  2. #502
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Pardon my ignorance but what is the job description of a PO Writer, L/S Writer, etc.? What do they do?
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  4. #503
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Pardon my ignorance but what is the job description of a PO Writer, L/S Writer, etc.? What do they do?
    They no longer exist, but when they did they filled Administrative appointments in the NS like Discharges, Records etc.

    AFAIK there was only one seagoing vacancy on Eithne.

    The remainder worked in PMS and NHQ.

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  6. #504
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    So the NCO appointments for writers went to Executive branch? possibly explaining the wealth of SCPO ranks with in the division?

    I don't think there were any SCPOs in Writers. Just CPOs and one WO.

    4 SCPO in the Executive branch, 1 as MAA Naval College, 1 in FORST, 1 in LOGS and 1 on Eithne

  7. #505
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    They no longer exist, but when they did they filled Administrative appointments in the NS like Discharges, Records etc.

    AFAIK there was only one seagoing vacancy on Eithne.

    The remainder worked in PMS and NHQ.
    So clerks?

  8. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    I don't think there were any SCPOs in Writers. Just CPOs and one WO.

    4 SCPO in the Executive branch, 1 as MAA Naval College, 1 in FORST, 1 in LOGS and 1 on Eithne
    Writers only ever had one WO. Very nice man, has not been in best of health lately. Both sons followed him into the navy, both left before he did.
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  10. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    So clerks?
    I retired in 1992 and was back to get an officers ID about 4 years ago and met a staffed office with people doing clerical duties and an officer ADMIN sitting at his desk at the top of the office ( open Plan). They may have been seamen branch as I didn't think to look for the WRITERS Flash. In my day there was a warrant officer in Supplies assisted by a SCPO who ran the clothing end. There was another SCPO in the ADMIN office and at least a CPO in HQ. There were a number of SPO's that were exclusively supplies , the SPO matched the Coy QM SGT. and the SCPO matched the Batty QM SGT. Stewards, Writers and Supplies were all in the same branch.

  11. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    I retired in 1992 and was back to get an officers ID about 4 years ago and met a staffed office with people doing clerical duties and an officer ADMIN sitting at his desk at the top of the office ( open Plan). They may have been seamen branch as I didn't think to look for the WRITERS Flash. In my day there was a warrant officer in Supplies assisted by a SCPO who ran the clothing end. There was another SCPO in the ADMIN office and at least a CPO in HQ. There were a number of SPO's that were exclusively supplies , the SPO matched the Coy QM SGT. and the SCPO matched the Batty QM SGT. Stewards, Writers and Supplies were all in the same branch.
    Sorry, should have said SCPO matched Battalion Quarter Master Sergeant

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  13. #509
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    SCPO and SPO were specifically equated to army quarter master ranks and in the grand scheme of things had no place out side of Supplies, but were liberally scattered among the other divisions as a paygrade without having a precise function. Please don't think I'm understating the role of any of those that hold or have held the rank just giving the history of how the NS acquired a rank that wasn't in the original set up.

    The fact that I served as a recruit with 3 of the existing Exec Branch SCPOs is quite scary, one of who should have been MAA in my opinion.

    So clerks?
    In a nut shell yes, but never referred to as such. Writers or Scribes being the accepted term in Naval circles

    AFAIK there was only one seagoing vacancy on Eithne
    Leading Writers position, admin support for the Cox'n, much maligned until you needed a travel warrant !
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  14. #510
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    SCPO and SPO were specifically equated to army quarter master ranks and in the grand scheme of things had no place out side of Supplies, but were liberally scattered among the other divisions as a paygrade without having a precise function. Please don't think I'm understating the role of any of those that hold or have held the rank just giving the history of how the NS acquired a rank that wasn't in the original set up.

    The fact that I served as a recruit with 3 of the existing Exec Branch SCPOs is quite scary, one of who should have been MAA in my opinion.



    In a nut shell yes, but never referred to as such. Writers or Scribes being the accepted term in Naval circles



    Leading Writers position, admin support for the Cox'n, much maligned until you needed a travel warrant !
    PO Writer position initially .
    Last edited by Laners; 10th March 2020 at 18:31.
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  16. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    PO Writer position initially .
    It used to be prevalent that anybody within the PDF could be promoted to higher rank provided it Blocked an existing appointment in CS4. If you promote a seaman PO to SPO then that position is blocked to all other departments until it is vacated by retirement or promotion. We had as high as Captain NS blocking Colonel elsewhere in the PDF. If a CPO went overseas for 6 months his rank could be filled at home temporarily, sometimes when they returned the rank would remain in duality because there was a vacancy elsewhere in the PDF.

  17. #512
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
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    Just a quick thought. The current Covid-19 crisis is seeing Naval assets deploying to quayside in cities around the country, but who is watching the ocean while this is ongoing? Again, this highlights the gross lack of investment in the Defence Forces of successive governments and like with our airspace, leaves us horribly exposed.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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  19. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODIN View Post
    Just a quick thought. The current Covid-19 crisis is seeing Naval assets deploying to quayside in cities around the country, but who is watching the ocean while this is ongoing? Again, this highlights the gross lack of investment in the Defence Forces of successive governments and like with our airspace, leaves us horribly exposed.
    Pre ICG days we relied on the Brits to do the hard edge stuff with Sea Kings for ASR and Shackleton and subsequently Nimrod for MAPs. Our Aer Corps do MAPs with the CASA and ASR is now done by contract. The reason for the latter is the paucity in depth of our AIR assets and the manpower to sustain it over a 24/7/365 basis. The three Naval ships now deployed, including a resurrected P31, will probably act as testing stations for Covid-19. Logistically the front edge of testing, ie swabbing and forwarding to test centres, has swamped those centres/centre, with the result that swab samples are piling up. The centre is managing 900 p.d. but national testing is to exceed that number. Perhaps they need extra test centres or stop sampling for an opportunity to clear the back-log.
    Our front edge budget that buys defence items is rarely more than 150/200m Euro about 0.1% of GDP.

  20. #514
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    There are some other State assets such as the research vessels of the Marine Institute, I'm sure there is some legislation which would allow these vessels to be used in the fisheries protection/ monitoring role if needed .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

  21. #515
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    Two ships, booked for commercial research operations, with one due to retire.
    The fishing industry is in collapse at present with this virus. Let's give them a break.
    Normal anti smuggling monitoring will continue. If anything this crisis makes the wrong ones easier to spot.
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  22. #516
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    I did say "if needed" and if they were needed the commercial research could easily be put on the back burner .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

  23. #517
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    EMSA and the wider ESA provide all member states with a range of space based observation systems to detect and monitor EU EEZs. This includes: EO/IR/MS/EMS, SAR, VDS, VMS, LRIT, T-AIS, S-AIS as well as AI/ML for ship pattern/behavior analysis.

    If anything, it’s a further indictment that the DoD/DF has no formal part of its organizational structure dedicated to two out of the five formally declared NATO domains of operations.

  24. #518
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    European fishery Agency had a vessel along side in Cork Last week, probably back filling on FP as we speak
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  25. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    EMSA and the wider ESA provide all member states with a range of space based observation systems to detect and monitor EU EEZs. This includes: EO/IR/MS/EMS, SAR, VDS, VMS, LRIT, T-AIS, S-AIS as well as AI/ML for ship pattern/behavior analysis.

    If anything, it’s a further indictment that the DoD/DF has no formal part of its organizational structure dedicated to two out of the five formally declared NATO domains of operations.
    There is an AIS based system operational in Naval base, AFAIK it meets basic need of knowing all vessels that are AIS active. Our shortfall is scanning higher elevations and of course AS and subsurface monitoring other than ROV's for specific tasks.

  26. #520
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    With the decline in passenger travel, tanker rates lower than ever with ships being tied up and the possibility of a global recession in the wake of this virus, could we see many skilled watch keepers return to a secure state job in the short term? Could this be the right time to recruit DEs?
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  28. #521
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    The shortfall, as eluded to in the thread title, is the lack of suitably trained and technically competent personnel who would be able to exploit the vast amount of freely available data sources and integrate them into existing DF systems.

    The DF is nowhere near the level of data fusion and exploitation it needs to be at. Guess why - not enough people

    Compare below (+800 people, PhDs etc) with the the number of people the DF has dedicated to GEOINT/GIS (above zero - just)

    http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/about-us/geoint/default.htm

    GEOINT New Zealand (GNZ) is part of Defence Intelligence within the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF). Its mission is to provide effective GEOINT leadership, products, services and solutions to meet New Zealand's all-of-government and international requirements to ensure the nation's safety, security and success.

    GNZ works with a range of national and international partners, such as: Land Information New Zealand (LINZ), New Zealand Police, New Zealand Fire Service, the US National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA), the Australian Geospatial-Intelligence Organisation (AGO) and Australian Hydrographic Office (AHO), as well as the UK Defence Geographic Centre (DGC) and the UK Hydrographic Office (UKHO).
    Last edited by TangoSierra; 19th March 2020 at 15:46.

  29. #522
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    We are in a national health emergency the likes of which we have never seen! Priorities!

  30. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    The shortfall, as eluded to in the thread title, is the lack of suitably trained and technically competent personnel who would be able to exploit the vast amount of freely available data sources and integrate them into existing DF systems.

    The DF is nowhere near the level of data fusion and exploitation it needs to be at. Guess why - not enough people

    Compare below (+800 people, PhDs etc) with the the number of people the DF has dedicated to GEOINT/GIS (above zero - just)

    http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/about-us/geoint/default.htm
    Certainly it has become a norm for Mil Intelligence and Garda Security to talk to each other and to liaise with other European agencies including Interpol. Often interdiction of drugs and Arms were initiated by Int sources outside our immediate territory. There is a cohort of digital media wizards within the country, just set up a sub-unit and recruit the techs required. Our problem has always been inaction and doing Chicken Licken.

  31. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    We are in a national health emergency the likes of which we have never seen! Priorities!
    Exactly, priorities. A dedicated Governement/Defence GeoInt organization could track/trace and visualize Corvid-19 spread.

  32. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Certainly it has become a norm for Mil Intelligence and Garda Security to talk to each other and to liaise with other European agencies including Interpol. Often interdiction of drugs and Arms were initiated by Int sources outside our immediate territory. There is a cohort of digital media wizards within the country, just set up a sub-unit and recruit the techs required. Our problem has always been inaction and doing Chicken Licken.
    How are you going recruit and retain tech wizards with peanut wages?

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