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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    It seems to me that a detailed review of Retention and recruitment in the Defence Forces needs to be undertaken . It should begin by setting overall strength to be achieved and its distribution among the services. We then need to look at equipment needs in all services with a view to acquiring STEM skills to operate systems. We should be looking at least 20 years ahead. We need to set levels of recruitment of Females, say 15%, and new Irish citizens at 10%. The staffs need to establish a Harmony running Survey to ensure that even individual personnel are not burdened unfairly away from family. There must not be added cost or loss of normal expected rights as to where one can live when not on duty. The service Ratio in the UK is 8:3:3. however as an initial position we could look at 10:2:2. which would give 1357 Navy and 1357 Air corps and 6786 Army.
    We need to zero in on specialist skills that take years of training and try elements of direct entry and /or finding it in the Reserve.
    All well and good to do that, but that does not resolve the current key issue that the government are NOT remunerating DF personnel at a rate commensurate with their skillset and experience and with regard to their separation. If the leaks are to be believed, AC pilots will get allowances (Air Component operations supported), overseas allowance increased (land component supported) and PDA brought up a meager €5 .... Maritime Component supported?
    Sea going has to be incentivised.
    No point looking ahead 20 years while we wither on the vine.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
      All well and good to do that, but that does not resolve the current key issue that the government are NOT remunerating DF personnel at a rate commensurate with their skillset and experience and with regard to their separation. If the leaks are to be believed, AC pilots will get allowances (Air Component operations supported), overseas allowance increased (land component supported) and PDA brought up a meager €5 .... Maritime Component supported?
      Sea going has to be incentivised.
      No point looking ahead 20 years while we wither on the vine.
      Planning is for the future. NOBODY in the Navy saw a Nine ship Fleet with a sustainable world wide element within it. The life cycle of ships is 30/40 years at the very most. Planning includes usage/capability/manning/maintenance/skills/costs. The incentivisation may come from having Harmonisation /Remuneration/education factors built in to make the job attractive in the E-marketplace. Shore amenities such as accommodation, OR access to your own, is essential. There is wisdom in the meantime to allow budgets to be fixed and spendable e.g. if pay Budget is unspendable in any year then Buy needed equipments with it. Millions returned are-ships. aircraqft, modern weapons, accommodation.
      Last edited by ancientmariner; 4 July 2019, 08:58.

      Comment


      • Well this escalated quickly.

        Two Naval Service ships were taken out of service last week for routine maintenance and not because of crew shortages, Minister of State with special responsibility for Defence Paul Kehoe has insisted.
        Media reports last week, including a report in The Irish Times, that the LE Eithne and the LE Orla were taken off patrol duty due to crew shortages were “inaccurate reporting”, he declared.
        “I got a very extensive briefing from the flag officer commanding the Naval Service, Cmdr Mick Malone, this morning and there are no ships currently tied up because of manpower issues.
        “There are ships tied up because of routine maintenance and that was inaccurate reporting last week,” said Mr Kehoe when asked about crew shortages at a commissioning ceremony at Naval Base HQ at Haulbowline.
        However, this is what FOCNS told all his staff recently..



        Is the Junior minister saying the FOCNS is lying to his staff? Or is the Junior minister lying? In other countries this would be grounds for a minister stepping down.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

        Comment


        • They have been tied up for maintenance - but they will not be able to resume duties after the Maintainence because of no crews.

          As any good barrister knows, it all depends on which questions are asked, and which ones are not...
          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
            They have been tied up for maintenance - but they will not be able to resume duties after the Maintainence because of no crews.

            As any good barrister knows, it all depends on which questions are asked, and which ones are not...
            Bit like a fully staffed hospital with no doctors. I sometimes wonder if the Induction procedure for the DoD is watching the Yes Minister Box Set.

            It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
            It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
            It was a new age...It was the end of history.
            It was the year everything changed.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CTU View Post
              Bit like a fully staffed hospital with no doctors. I sometimes wonder if the Induction procedure for the DoD is watching the Yes Minister Box Set.

              Problem is also at Dail questions (and in the Minister’s) Office most politicians don’t know what the subsequent question/response should be

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                They have been tied up for maintenance - but they will not be able to resume duties after the Maintainence because of no crews.

                As any good barrister knows, it all depends on which questions are asked, and which ones are not...
                As you say it depends!! Ships are put into reduced manning, only in our dockyard , and can be said to be in maintenance, as in ticking over, and at a specified Notice-Month-week-72hrs, etc., etc. The reason of course is crew shortages/skills. One reason is actual-shortage , the other is consequential to give the vessel a chance of another deployment. Nine ships need 1125 personnel for shipboard duties to keep them available for notice. This does not include Base Security, Dockyard, Supplies, Communications, Training etc.

                Comment


                • Problem is also at Dail questions (and in the Minister’s) Office most politicians don’t know what the subsequent question/response should be
                  Opposition politicians know well who to ring up and get a brief off of , they frequently grand stand though instead of using the proper forensic questions required
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                    Opposition politicians know well who to ring up and get a brief off of , they frequently grand stand though instead of using the proper forensic questions required
                    They have improved in fairness but most of it is political point scoring. They rarely know enough about the subject to follow up the DoD provided answer with a decent question..... not that the reply would be very informative

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                      They have been tied up for maintenance - but they will not be able to resume duties after the Maintainence because of no crews.

                      As any good barrister knows, it all depends on which questions are asked, and which ones are not...
                      The minister is a lying fcuk..... The scheduled refits had been cancelled in favour of light maintainence as it was not foreseen that ships would be undertaking regular patriols due to man power shortages. more to the point if the shortages are among key replacements or ship stoppers the ships won't go to see again in the foreseeable future until the relevant people have been qualified, given that replacements will be needed to stop further withdrawls from patrols rather than putting reduced crewed ships to sea we could be talking of them not going to sea permanently , Eithne is in her final days with either of the Peacocks being in the same position.

                      The minister was beaten to the draw... gameover....trying to discredit a head of service is a new low for any politician, given the FOCNS is the first to have to withdraw vessels since 1970, he didn't do it withany ease.

                      The Junior Minister has tried to make out he is a liar, the Junior misnister has to go.....
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                        The minister is a lying fcuk..... The scheduled refits had been cancelled in favour of light maintainence as it was not foreseen that ships would be undertaking regular patriols due to man power shortages. more to the point if the shortages are among key replacements or ship stoppers the ships won't go to see again in the foreseeable future until the relevant people have been qualified, given that replacements will be needed to stop further withdrawls from patrols rather than putting reduced crewed ships to sea we could be talking of them not going to sea permanently , Eithne is in her final days with either of the Peacocks being in the same position.

                        The minister was beaten to the draw... gameover....trying to discredit a head of service is a new low for any politician, given the FOCNS is the first to have to withdraw vessels since 1970, he didn't do it withany ease.

                        The Junior Minister has tried to make out he is a liar, the Junior misnister has to go.....
                        It has been a fact of life, in our services, that any directed intervention by a spokesperson, based on Civil Service Draft, will always be an attempt to hide an underlying problem, or make it go away. I'm really concerned that a reversion to the 1970's will lessen the urgency to fill establishment vacancies . Shortage in pinch appointments, key technicians, can see systems shut down or unused . We emasculated ships before and ran the navy down to NO, repeat NO, ships. We do need the logs vessel but is it now slipping down the mountain in Mayo!!

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                        • The Government don't have a clue about our Naval Service it beggars belief that they don't even know how many ships are in the Navy, when the Taoiseach was asked to clarify the comments by Kehoe he said the following and its on RTE news section

                          ("So rather than spreading the crews over seven ships, they are now going to fully staff and fully equip five and the other two will go into maintenance in the meantime)
                          Does the head of the Defence Forces not even know how many ships are in the Navy we have 8 not 7 as he said.

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                          • Originally posted by Brian McGrath View Post
                            The Government don't have a clue about our Naval Service it beggars belief that they don't even know how many ships are in the Navy, when the Taoiseach was asked to clarify the comments by Kehoe he said the following and its on RTE news section



                            Does the head of the Defence Forces not even know how many ships are in the Navy we have 8 not 7 as he said.
                            He is not the only one we have 9 (P61, P62, P63, P64, P51, P52, P41, P42, P31)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                              He is not the only one we have 9 (P61, P62, P63, P64, P51, P52, P41, P42, P31)
                              Whoops either way they should know

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