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  1. #176
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    I can guarantee that no RDF staff officer did this without prior instruction. Good to see that plausible deniability is live and well.

  2. #177
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    Or that something other than group think is trying to come up with solutions to crisis problems, yet does not go unpunished!

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  4. #178
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    It was some clown in the RDF or NSR that started that on his own, wasn't authorised by or come from the Naval Service
    No AR/NSR Officer would have done this ; as B20 said its nice to see people playing the blame game.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  5. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    No AR/NSR Officer would have done this ; as B20 said its nice to see people playing the blame game.
    I suppose all of this is a kite flying, but paltry exercise. Recruiting must be initiated in a positive fashion and try to eliminate stopgap actions. However NSR callups should be part of all NSR enlistments with a view to skilling reservists for relevant shipboard tasks. In recruiting from all sources , going forward, we must take into account that shipboard systems are requiring higher levels of comprehension to get optimum use of systems available. Through the NMCI we might need a SME module to hone skills in using modern Electronic, weapon, Navigation, Surveillance, and othe shipboard IT systems.
    In Defensive systems ships need input from automatic sensors to detect, track, and engage. The whole needs skilled experienced crew which in turn needs retention of crews, otherwise we will get the P31 syndrome of bin the tough bits.

  6. #180
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Only ever heard of people transferring from NS to army
    Does happen but usually in non seagoing appointments. Former editor of an Cosantoir transferred from Army to NS, I was on duty with him as his first experience as a Naval Service guard commander....
    Time for another break I think......

  7. #181
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I can guarantee that no RDF staff officer did this without prior instruction. Good to see that plausible deniability is live and well.
    No AR/NSR Officer would have done this ;
    Sounds a bit like Oliver North....so which version is correct....no one did it...or no one did it without prior instruction?
    Time for another break I think......

  8. #182
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Sounds a bit like Oliver North....so which version is correct....no one did it...or no one did it without prior instruction?
    Or someone did it with prior instruction and wires were crossed

  9. #183
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Or the questions really was "Are any Naval Service Reservists were interested in joining the Permanent Defence Force in the future.........through the normal recruiting process?" and after it went through the ballhop machine it became "We want to transfer reservists to the PDF, do you want to do it?"

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  11. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    No AR/NSR Officer would have done this ; as B20 said its nice to see people playing the blame game.
    Well, they did and it has now been officially confirmed publicly, whether you like the fact or not.

  12. #185
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Nothing in the public statement did it say that the RDF Officer did it off his/he own bat. By the way neither did it say that the RDF officer asked for anything more than information on who many NSR people were interested in joining the PDF in the near future.

    From those of us with experience with dealing with DFHQ/DOD/Govt Ministers, this is the most likely scenario.
    Said RDF officer was tasked with conducting a discrete inquiry into who many NSR would be likely to apply for the PDF in the coming year.
    This discrete inquiry was interpreted by some as NSR are going to be called up directly into the NS.
    This was then publically condemned by national press, representative associations, opposition TDs.
    A roll back of the original plan (which was probably nothing more than if they identified that 30 NSR were interested in the joining the PDF they could be targeted and fast tracked through the selection process but still go through the standard recruit training).
    Standard denial issued.

    Said RDF officer takes one for the team.

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  14. #186
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    And the AdminO for the RDF Reorg did say that members of the RDF will be encouraged to join the PDF

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  16. #187
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Well, they did and it has now been officially confirmed publicly, whether you like the fact or not.
    Sorry I see the PQ answer now. I refuse to believe anyone did this off their own bat. If I'm wrong Ill own up.


    And for avoidance of doubt I dont know anything about this.
    Last edited by trellheim; 2nd November 2018 at 12:54.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  17. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post

    Notice was tiered with a ship varying from maximum agreed notice in the Basin, to standard operational notice at the OW. Once out on SO the ship remained at Immediate notice throughout her patrol duration. Notice could also be meaningless as a laid-up ship could be brought to 72 hours notice and rushed out with re-calls and replacements using chaos theory.
    The lift blood of any Navy is to be busy training, and carrying out operational duties, undertaking missions abroad, , showing the flag, and to promote Irish interests abroad assisting the Dept. of Foreign Affairs etc. It cannot be done without inputs and prudent participation in overseas missions. Seeing ships hanging about Cork harbour can give a wrong impression. Right now foreign visits should be underway. What's happened things like Kiel Week? The Irish memorial on the loss of the Empress of Ireland in the St. Lawrence River at Father's Point with 1000+ losses.

  18. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The lift blood of any Navy is to be busy training, and carrying out operational duties, undertaking missions abroad, , showing the flag, and to promote Irish interests abroad assisting the Dept. of Foreign Affairs etc. It cannot be done without inputs and prudent participation in overseas missions. Seeing ships hanging about Cork harbour can give a wrong impression. Right now foreign visits should be underway. What's happened things like Kiel Week? The Irish memorial on the loss of the Empress of Ireland in the St. Lawrence River at Father's Point with 1000+ losses.
    Sorry for" lift" read "life" in first sentence. The 100 anniversary of the Loss of Empress of Ireland was May 2019.

  19. #190
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    How does that fit with having x ships at y notice as is the current KPI ?

    I assume x ships includes those at sea.

  20. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    How does that fit with having x ships at y notice as is the current KPI ?

    I assume x ships includes those at sea.
    To be honest it is 27 years since I parted with Naval salt water and sailed with Sailing Orders. The snap shot last week, including P51 in DSG Cork Drydocks was X+Y in base. There is a lot to be done or should be done. Like check out approaches and aids to every harbour in Ireland and classify their usability for Naval use.Make a report with recommendations to DOD and the Minister with Marine in his portfolio. We suffer from marine regression and stagnation. An old school CONS told me once, "you can doss off anywhere you like on S.O. but don't do it in Cork Harbour, it creates a bad impression and more importantly bad Press."

  21. #192
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    And also Manpower and patrol days availability need to be factored in.... also remember what will come down the line.... climate change and the biggest user of fuel in the DF???? the NS

  22. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    And also Manpower and patrol days availability need to be factored in.... also remember what will come down the line.... climate change and the biggest user of fuel in the DF???? the NS
    Make sure that at all used ports our ships can go on shore power but in any case all the time at the naval base. It should be the task of the Naval service to construct a comprehensive research based PORTALON of the total Irish coast to include passages, anchorages, Lit and blind harbours, bouyage and marks,tidal information etc., and relevant intelligence useful to the pdf. Capt. Myles did one for ILC and its their bible for all coastal work. Ships must be kept busy otherwise capability is diluted.

  23. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Make sure that at all used ports our ships can go on shore power but in any case all the time at the naval base. It should be the task of the Naval service to construct a comprehensive research based PORTALON of the total Irish coast to include passages, anchorages, Lit and blind harbours, bouyage and marks,tidal information etc., and relevant intelligence useful to the pdf. Capt. Myles did one for ILC and its their bible for all coastal work. Ships must be kept busy otherwise capability is diluted.
    Age is a bugger. I should have said in the second last sentence Capt Myles Hook Irish Lights R.I.P.

  24. #195
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Make sure that at all used ports our ships can go on shore power but in any case all the time at the naval base. It should be the task of the Naval service to construct a comprehensive research based PORTALON of the total Irish coast to include passages, anchorages, Lit and blind harbours, bouyage and marks,tidal information etc., and relevant intelligence useful to the pdf. Capt. Myles did one for ILC and its their bible for all coastal work. Ships must be kept busy otherwise capability is diluted.
    NSR Pot NCO Cse did that as a paper based exercise for the Med for OP PONTUS

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  26. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    NSR Pot NCO Cse did that as a paper based exercise for the Med for OP PONTUS
    Worthwhile doing. Most deepsea navigators have their personal Courses and distances note book and sight book. Our SO's tended to give key calling points or weekend and fuelling points for the smaller vessels and usually rounded off by instructions to make " Local inquiries ". We need to visit and collect data for unfamiliar ports like Sligo, Burtonport, Dundalk , Drogheda, Wexford and all the other nooks and crannies on the coast.

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  28. #197
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...age-933471.htm

    At last someone using their brain

    Don’t the P50s and P60s have a normal operational crew of 44 (not 50, normally 45 as reported here (I assume that is the max capacity))

  29. #198
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...age-933471.htm

    At last someone using their brain

    Don’t the P50s and P60s have a normal operational crew of 44 (not 50, normally 45 as reported here (I assume that is the max capacity))
    Not max capacity as there are normally cadets cabins available, but 45 is the average crew on ships apart from Eithne
    Time for another break I think......

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  31. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Not max capacity as there are normally cadets cabins available, but 45 is the average crew on ships apart from Eithne
    In the overall scheme of things, it is NOT looking good for the Navy's future, with a return to the bad old days of loading duties to fewer ships, tying up ships in "moderate maintenance " and cannibalising crews, now, and maybe equipment later. It will also delay required operational expansion-all courtesy of the Departments and some in direct authority. If we cannot do it then we should seek funding from the EU Commission to maintain a credible Border Force and respond as required to HADR as it occurs.

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  33. #200
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    Last time I can think of when the Naval Command announced that ships were unable to put to sea was in the latter days of the Corvettes.
    This is a groundbreaking statement by FOCNS.
    The Current government like to waffle in the dail about providing 4 new ships for the naval service, but without crews they are pointless.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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