They'd tie you in knots with restrictive support packages, loaded heavily in their favour. At least with Gripens,you're somewhat tied to American kit but you'd have a bit more flexibility because of our trading links with Sweden.
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IMHO the only realistic option will be second-hand aircraft and the contenders would be:
Eurofighter:
Italy, Spain have offer at different times aircraft for sale. Austria and Germany will be retiring some aircraft soon.
PROs: Inter-interoperability with our neighbour who flies the same aircraft on the same mission. A pure fighter aircraft with twin engines which some like for over water operations.
CONs: The most expensive to operate.
JAS39
Sweden has leased aircraft in the past, how many would be available is unknown especially now Sweden wants to keep the C/D variants after the EIS of the E variant.
South Africa could a potential source as they lack fund to fly their fleet.
PROs: Cheapest aircraft to operate, in service with Sweden with whom we have a long history of co-operation.
CONs: Shortest range
F16
USA has a stock and has leased aircraft in the past as well as sales.
Norway and Denmark have offered surplus to Croatia.
Israel has tried to offer its surplus to Croatia but has hit resistance from the US.
PROs: large user base, still in production, still looks cool even 46yrs after its first flight
CONs: oldest aircraft both for airframe and systems
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostIMHO the only realistic option will be second-hand aircraft and the contenders would be:
Eurofighter:
Italy, Spain have offer at different times aircraft for sale. Austria and Germany will be retiring some aircraft soon.
PROs: Inter-interoperability with our neighbour who flies the same aircraft on the same mission. A pure fighter aircraft with twin engines which some like for over water operations.
CONs: The most expensive to operate.
JAS39
Sweden has leased aircraft in the past, how many would be available is unknown especially now Sweden wants to keep the C/D variants after the EIS of the E variant.
South Africa could a potential source as they lack fund to fly their fleet.
PROs: Cheapest aircraft to operate, in service with Sweden with whom we have a long history of co-operation.
CONs: Shortest range
F16
USA has a stock and has leased aircraft in the past as well as sales.
Norway and Denmark have offered surplus to Croatia.
Israel has tried to offer its surplus to Croatia but has hit resistance from the US.
PROs: large user base, still in production, still looks cool even 46yrs after its first flight
CONs: oldest aircraft both for airframe and systems
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Austria only fielded the cheapest,most basic version and even that cost cartoon money. As for Gripen range, carry more drop tanks or get Saab to come up with conformal tanks. You'd have to be able to fly over any part of the huge EEZ we patrol with Casas, as a basic function . So a Gripen would have to be able to go from Shannon to Iceland,with a possibly diversion to the Faroes or Scotland or even Norway,unless you start getting into tankering and that's a whole new ball game in terms of cost. As for the Southern end of the EEZ,you'd need to be able to go as far as the equivalent of the Canaries, in terms of range, but you have lots of potential diverts available.
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Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View PostAustria only fielded the cheapest,most basic version and even that cost cartoon money. As for Gripen range, carry more drop tanks or get Saab to come up with conformal tanks. You'd have to be able to fly over any part of the huge EEZ we patrol with Casas, as a basic function . So a Gripen would have to be able to go from Shannon to Iceland,with a possibly diversion to the Faroes or Scotland or even Norway,unless you start getting into tankering and that's a whole new ball game in terms of cost. As for the Southern end of the EEZ,you'd need to be able to go as far as the equivalent of the Canaries, in terms of range, but you have lots of potential diverts available.
IAC would have time to scramble and preposition 2 fighters to Sligo/Knock for a refuel and Also potentially Increase alert state of 2 more And preposition to Shannon/Cork
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To tackle any range issue there is normally inflight refuelling. As part of their QRA responce the RAF have an A330 ready for launch, I would assume that the French have a similar arrangement. It should be possible to have some arrangement to be able to use this facility should we need too. If that was the case at least at present the Eurofighter and Grippen have an advantage as they use the probe & drogue system that the RAF & AdA have in service.
The F16 with the boom/receptacle system is not available on RAF or AdA tankers at present.
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Originally posted by DeV View PostOne would imagine that when the Bears are going down the West coast with transponders off the IAA are notified by Shanwick/RAF as they know they are on the way?
IAC would have time to scramble and preposition 2 fighters to Sligo/Knock for a refuel and Also potentially Increase alert state of 2 more And preposition to Shannon/Cork
That said, the Bears spend so long faffing about in the north sea we would have plenty of notice from Shanwick. Hell, even twitter will tell you where they are. Time to Fly to Shannon or Knock, fill the tanks, get a coffee, clean the windscreen and kick the tyres before you have to head skyward to intercept.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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Originally posted by Laners View PostHave drones ever been or could be considered for this role .For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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You need to hear the F35B in a hover...No video can do it justice. My son was over at RIAT for this & everybody was blown away by it, no pun intended.
From 1:33
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Tonka with full a/b low level was loud, but not painful. I notice the F35 can't do the Harrier "nod". I fear they are destined to be an expensive mistake though. Too costly with too light a payload. Great on paper, but not practical for normal use.
Like the Mig23, F-111 or F4.
It was interesting to see how unstable the F35 was at low speed, while in formation with the Lancaster and the Tornado. The Fly by wire was struggling correcting to keep it in the air.Last edited by na grohmiti; 1 July 2020, 22:32.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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Originally posted by na grohmiti View PostTonka with full a/b low level was loud, but not painful. I notice the F35 can't do the Harrier "nod". I fear they are destined to be an expensive mistake though. Too costly with too light a payload. Great on paper, but not practical for normal use.
Like the Mig23, F-111 or F4.
It was interesting to see how unstable the F35 was at low speed, while in formation with the Lancaster and the Tornado. The Fly by wire was struggling correcting to keep it in the air.
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Originally posted by Sparky42 View PostGiven the service life of the F4 I'm a bit surprised to see that on the list?
When you put all your eggs in one basket, you are stuck with that basket. The term "too big to fail" is often thrown about and the F4 was exactly that. Its weaknesses were badly exposed when it entered combat, and major changes to avionics, hardware and weaponry during its service kept it in use. It was designed to strike against soviet bombers at long range, but against a more manouverable rival with a cannon it struggled.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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