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Defending the Irish airspace

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  • So, can we just happily put this stuff on the 'crack fuelled deranged lunacy' pile?

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    • The AM-39 was never cleared for use on the SA-365, even the SA-330 while capable of carrying an AM-39 (780 kg each) it was its newer stablemate the AS-332 that was the first to have these missile integrated.

      The AS-15TT was integrated on the SA-365 but it required the Agrion 15 radar system for guidance as it is a command guided missile. It was not integrated with the Bendix radar

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      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
        The AM-39 was never cleared for use on the SA-365, even the SA-330 while capable of carrying an AM-39 (780 kg each) it was its newer stablemate the AS-332 that was the first to have these missile integrated.

        The AS-15TT was integrated on the SA-365 but it required the Agrion 15 radar system for guidance as it is a command guided missile. It was not integrated with the Bendix radar
        So I suppose you are telling me there is no Santa either?
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
          So, can we just happily put this stuff on the 'crack fuelled deranged lunacy' pile?
          Nurse Ratched to IMO at the rush...Nurse Ratched...
          'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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          • Originally posted by spider View Post
            Nurse Ratched to IMO at the rush...Nurse Ratched...
            Without rumours, imo wouldn't exist. There was rumours back before the Internet too, but they were far more wacky because they were impossible to verify either way.
            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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            • Originally posted by spider View Post
              Nurse Ratched to IMO at the rush...Nurse Ratched...
              Too funny lads; too funny...

              Remain convinced the Soviet Navy were quaking in their boots at the prospect of squaring up against our two mighty little Dauphins.

              MT was the wicked witch of the East.

              CJH, after the whole kerfuffle; was determined to squeeze every last UK taxpayer penny out of the resolution. Swarthy gentlemen in a middle-eastern hotel room represented both sides. He bought three more Dauphins, just so he could imagine her face on hearing the news.

              The Air/Amphibious forces thing has been doing the rounds for so long, in circles that you would presume to be highly informed, that I just don't know what to say beyond the following. Was presented with a text baldly stating such restrictions quite some time ago. The Anglo-Irish treaty was revised and modified so many times over the decades, including by the various Anglo-Irish trade agreements, that I suppose such restrictions could have been added/dropped between versions and that such modification may have been considered lacking sufficient legal clarity.

              A request to repeal the Anglo-Irish Treaty in it's entirety, including the Air Force restriction, is referred to (with astonishment that such a provision might still be in place) in Tony Blair's papers as AOB concerning the GFA.


              How we got here; in case anyone has forgotten.

              Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
              There is a lesson also for any possible future jet fighter: buy off-the-shelf, do not modify.
              Originally posted by The Usual Suspect View Post
              Agreed.. but.. the Dauphins were Exocet capable for a very specific reason.
              Off-the-shelf fighters..
              Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 24 November 2020, 19:47.

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              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                So I suppose you are telling me there is no Santa either?
                Ohhm no, he is real but only if you have been a good boy and leave out a pint of the good stuff for him

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                • We could always consider modernising the vampires


                  Hello nurse, I'll be with you in a moment
                  Last edited by Tempest; 24 November 2020, 16:30.

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                  • Originally posted by Tempest View Post
                    We could always consider modernising the vampires
                    [ATTACH]8853[/ATTACH]

                    Hello nurse, I'll be with you in a moment
                    Don't knock the Vampire it had a higher rate of climb than anything we have today, or ever had.

                    Comment


                    • Another great webinar by IDFOC last night, dealing with the area of military air power in Ireland. It should be up on youtube soon enough.
                      One suggestion made was a joint Squadron (Eurofighter Typhoon was the aircraft being suggested) to share the Western Seaboard QRA. Also suggested was 2nd Hand (Tranche 1) Eurofighters, which we could operate in tandem with the RAF, who already have the knowledge base when it comes to training and maintenance on type.
                      It was also suggested that because of how modern our current civilian aircraft monitoring radar is, transition to primary radar to the edge of our Airspace is not that difficult a task.
                      The Rafale was also mentioned as an option, but while the purchase or leasing cost may be relatively small, the cost to operate type, and maintaining a pool of 40 pilots current on type, quickly hits a billion extra per year in the defence vote. €60,000 per flying hour all in. (running costs, crew wages etc)
                      Expanding Baldonnel was ruled out. Moving to Shannon was also ruled out. NIMYs being the main issue.
                      Going forward if it was a choice over military transport or fighter jets, Military transport would be an easier sell to the public.
                      A lot was covered, some great contributions.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                      • What's IDFOC?

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                        • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                          What's IDFOC?
                          Irish Defence Forces Officers Club. Their webinars are mostly open to all, once you have Zoom.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                          Comment


                          • Like I said before, this country can afford combat aircraft any time it wants. It chooses not to. We, the taxpayer, funded the purchase of very expensive large aircraft for Aer Lingus,Aer Turas, Irish Helicopters for decades and operated them without financial restraint, crews ,mechs, parts, tools, overhauls etc in much more financially strained times and quite often without batting an eyelid because the country needed them, yet the AC had to struggle to get parts for simpler aircraft (even the Cessnas) and the Army and NS had to keep obsolete crap running well beyond their useful lives. We owned the 747s and the A330s, the B737s and the Bell 212s and the Bo105s outright. We bore those costs directly. The AC would have given it's collective left nut to have helicopters like those. To give you a direct real world cost, an A330 costs four times what a Rafale costs, assuming you pay full whack for them.No-one does,of course. Nowadays, you lease things or pool them and share them so costs are reduced. Get your fighters the same way. Manufacturers will bite your hand off for the work. If all you want to do is get up close and personal to a wandering TU-95 and give him a stern finger-wagging, lease in an F-18C or two from the manufacturer or the US Navy or the Finnish AF or the Swiss AF. They'd be happy to help....................Get a KC-130 from the US Marines to keep the Avtur flowing. I'm sure Joe Biden will "invite" the State Department to help us along, him being a staunch Mayo man. His friends from Mayo, the McEvaddys, run an air tanker outfit that'd be delighted to do some business for Ireland........the notion that Ireland can't afford high cost weapons is nonsense. The State simply doesn't want to.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                              Like I said before, this country can afford combat aircraft any time it wants. It chooses not to. We, the taxpayer, funded the purchase of very expensive large aircraft for Aer Lingus,Aer Turas, Irish Helicopters for decades and operated them without financial restraint, crews ,mechs, parts, tools, overhauls etc in much more financially strained times and quite often without batting an eyelid because the country needed them, yet the AC had to struggle to get parts for simpler aircraft (even the Cessnas) and the Army and NS had to keep obsolete crap running well beyond their useful lives. We owned the 747s and the A330s, the B737s and the Bell 212s and the Bo105s outright. We bore those costs directly. The AC would have given it's collective left nut to have helicopters like those. To give you a direct real world cost, an A330 costs four times what a Rafale costs, assuming you pay full whack for them.No-one does,of course. Nowadays, you lease things or pool them and share them so costs are reduced. Get your fighters the same way. Manufacturers will bite your hand off for the work. If all you want to do is get up close and personal to a wandering TU-95 and give him a stern finger-wagging, lease in an F-18C or two from the manufacturer or the US Navy or the Finnish AF or the Swiss AF. They'd be happy to help....................Get a KC-130 from the US Marines to keep the Avtur flowing. I'm sure Joe Biden will "invite" the State Department to help us along, him being a staunch Mayo man. His friends from Mayo, the McEvaddys, run an air tanker outfit that'd be delighted to do some business for Ireland........the notion that Ireland can't afford high cost weapons is nonsense. The State simply doesn't want to.
                              I know most of us have talked about Shannon being a better location for possible AC growth, but would Joe Biden International Airport, formally known as Ireland West, formally known as Connacht Airport, formally known as Knock Airport not be a nice place to located a dozen or more donated F-16's?

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                              • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                                What's IDFOC?



                                Well worth watching (watch the longer videos, the short ones are parts of them)

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