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  1. #301
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    I have heard of Blue-on-blue but this is taking it a bit far.

    https://defence-blog.com/news/nether...-exercise.html
    I wonder could the pilot paint an little Dutch flag on the side of his cockpit?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  3. #302
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    Not without precedent - an F-11F Tiger shot itself down in the same manner.

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  5. #303
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    Not the first time. Ricochets from the range has downed more than one aircraft.

  6. #304
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    According to Scramble Magazine on FB, FMV Sweden ordered 10 JAS39C’s and 4 JAS39D’s (“white tails”) that it doesn’t want/need in order to keep the production line open in the hope of getting an export customer... which they haven’t got yet

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  8. #305
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    Evidently built airframes but without the engine or cockpit / avionics fit-out.

  9. #306
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    Evidently built airframes but without the engine or cockpit / avionics fit-out.
    That would suit DoD.

    Minister can stand up in Dail and say we have the ability to defend our air space against all threats, neutrality assured, cost effective .....

    Just the civil servant writing the PQ answer leaves out the non-flying bit

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  11. #307
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    And photo-op for anybody who needs one standing in front of said airplanes, also keeping the crusties happy by having zero emissions or warlike function.

    Everybody’s happy! (Except for the DF, but who ever cares about them...)
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  13. #308
    CQMS The Usual Suspect's Avatar
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    Saab bundles two GlobalEye AWACS aircraft into Finnish HX (fighter replacement) bid.

    Similar population.
    Similar economy.
    Traditionally neutral, formally militarily non-aligned.
    Similar area of interest (trading North Atlantic EEZ for forest & tundra).

    GDP expenditure on defence; Finland 1.29%, Ireland 0.4%.
    Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 20th June 2019 at 13:39.
    Diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means - Zhou Enlai

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  15. #309
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    Finland takes defence seriously because of the big naughty neighbour next door, has never forgotten the wars, various with Russia and knows that it always has to keep an eye on Russia / Kaliningrad. Russian access to Northern and Polar waters worries them because formerly icebound territories have become freed up, thanks to global warming and better icebreakers so they are no longer dependent on the Baltic and can easily cross from Murmansk to the Far East. The Finns constantly train and exercise their reserves as well as their main army, unlike here.

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  17. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Finland takes defence seriously because of the big naughty neighbour next door, has never forgotten the wars, various with Russia and knows that it always has to keep an eye on Russia / Kaliningrad. Russian access to Northern and Polar waters worries them because formerly icebound territories have become freed up, thanks to global warming and better icebreakers so they are no longer dependent on the Baltic and can easily cross from Murmansk to the Far East. The Finns constantly train and exercise their reserves as well as their main army, unlike here.
    All you need to say is "Finland takes defence seriously, Ireland does not know what defence means"!

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  19. #311
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    I wonder how many similar deals this state has lost out on because of our supposed "neutrality". I'm sure if we had worded it correctly, the US would have been happy to have provided us with surplus Blackhawk type helicopters when we were looking for a UH. But our tender specified new, not 2nd hand.
    By the same token, the RAF recenty removed many of its low airframe hours hawks from service. I'm sure they would have made a good Fouga/Warrior replacement, long before we had to go down the Pilatus route. With actual combat usefulness, depending on type.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  21. #312
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    There's a very good book on the Irish Fougas by Radu Brinzan et al and the former GOC, Paul Fry, elaborates on the selection process that occurred for the replacement of the Fouga. Now, bear in mind that over the years, PF flew a lot of the contenders that visited Baldonnel so he knew what he was talking about; Alpha Jets, Hawks, Jet Provosts, MB 326 and 339 and a host of others and the one constant refrain is how the DoD would simply quash anything that was considered too warry or too expensive or didnt fit into their view of things; time and again, decent aircraft that were ideal for Ireland were sidestepped and the least useful solution was found, Fougas, essentially obsolete when they entered service and deeply unfit for the modern age when they were finally stood down. When you look at a PC-9 and realise that it jumped an entire generation in terms of utility and equipment fit, just to make the Don faintly equivalent in training terms with it's European neighbours; (ejection seats, EFIS instruments, data loading, HUD, multiple pylons, single lever turbine operation). It was the equivalent of going from a 1960s 737-200 to a 1990s 737-800 overnight. Same with the helicopters; the Alouettes were held on for far too long, while the ideal replacement for them was quietly plugging away in the background, flying for the Gardai, the ultra reliable and easy to use Squirrel, spares available worldwide. As for the Army, Panhards held on, and on and on, until they finally bought Mowags, basically because they had been embarrassed into doing so. defence purchasing in Ireland would make your eyes water.

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  23. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    .... the one constant refrain is how the DoD would simply quash anything that was considered too warry or too expensive or didnt fit into their view of things; time and again, decent aircraft that were ideal for Ireland were sidestepped and the least useful solution was found, ....
    Would it be impertinent to suggest that in Ireland, Department of Defence positions generally have more to do with shuffling civil servants around various departments to build career experience and moving up the civil service pay grades, than it has to do with actual experience and qualifications within the specialisation that is Defence. It used to be the case where I am from but, about 10 years ago our then PM had the bright idea that at least within the Capability Branch at the Defence Ministry, having people who actually knew about Defence in the job may be a better idea than some mug parachuted in from Inland Revenue or Treasury.

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  25. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    Would it be impertinent to suggest that in Ireland, Department of Defence positions generally have more to do with shuffling civil servants around various departments to build career experience and moving up the civil service pay grades, than it has to do with actual experience and qualifications within the specialisation that is Defence. It used to be the case where I am from but, about 10 years ago our then PM had the bright idea that at least within the Capability Branch at the Defence Ministry, having people who actually knew about Defence in the job may be a better idea than some mug parachuted in from Inland Revenue or Treasury.
    I remember a news story during the whole Decentralisation Debacle.. I mean Project that the DoD was oversubscribed for civil service transfers because of its "New" Location.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  27. #315
    CQMS The Usual Suspect's Avatar
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    GlobalEye, another value .. product from SAAB (via Google Translate, Original in Finnish)

    My understanding is that this particular airborne box of tricks can detect a jet-ski from up to 400km.

    An overnight surveillance flight could be used to radically improve tasking for the next morning's MPA flights.

    Any prospect of the Swedes being interested in a low-profile, week-long, narcotics interdiction exercise?
    Diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means - Zhou Enlai

  28. #316
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    Second RAF QRA diversion in a week

    https://news.sky.com/story/raf-typho...er-uk-11749904

    this one's flight path is interesting

    https://e3.365dm.com/19/06/1600x900/...ey_4703510.jpg
    Last edited by CTU; 27th June 2019 at 12:54.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  30. #317
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    Not sure if this story surfaced in the past, but it's an article from IHS in 2014 detailing how the Air Corps were using SitaWare to build a Common Air Operating Picture (CAOP) which could then be built into a Joint Common Operating Picture (JCOP)

    * https://systematic.com/media/1851932...nt-picture.pdf

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  32. #318
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  34. #319
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    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/201...alert-shannon/

    Unfortunately this is ADS-B (ie transponder) based

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  36. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Usual Suspect View Post

    GlobalEye, another value .. product from SAAB (via Google Translate, Original in Finnish)

    My understanding is that this particular airborne box of tricks can detect a jet-ski from up to 400km.

    An overnight surveillance flight could be used to radically improve tasking for the next morning's MPA flights.

    Any prospect of the Swedes being interested in a low-profile, week-long, narcotics interdiction exercise?
    AEW is a very advanced game. I'd buy Swordfish on Saab 2000 or similar. Give us a C4ISTAR platform that can be deployed for peacekeeping missions and support of EU. Don't buy the C295.

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  38. #321
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    the Don can barely hold onto the mission operators it has and can barely recruit new ones from within, so any shiny new toy has to have people to fill it and that's not happening.

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  40. #322
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    Conversely of course, people will join if they think that they'll get a rewarding, interesting, challenging career that gives them opportunities to do things they could never do if they worked for Lidl or Aldi.

    Pay and being worked like a dog are absolutely important to why people either leave or don't join in the first place - but you aren't going to attract the kind of people you need if all you can offer them are occasional army co-op exercises and counting fishing boats.

  41. #323
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    So now that the air corps will send pilots to the RAAF to be trained and rotate through an operational unit, any chance they would gift us their F/A-18s when they replace them with F35?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  42. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    So now that the air corps will send pilots to the RAAF to be trained and rotate through an operational unit, any chance they would gift us their F/A-18s when they replace them with F35?
    They sold them to Canada, and until the Canadians sort out what aircraft they are going to buy to replace their even more antique F/A-18's, will continue to do so until all that's left is scrap.

    I don't think they'll be gifting Growlers and SuperHornets to anyone in the next 30 years...

  43. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    Conversely of course, people will join if they think that they'll get a rewarding, interesting, challenging career that gives them opportunities to do things they could never do if they worked for Lidl or Aldi.

    Pay and being worked like a dog are absolutely important to why people either leave or don't join in the first place - but you aren't going to attract the kind of people you need if all you can offer them are occasional army co-op exercises and counting fishing boats.
    Absolutely so long as they are being fairly rewarded, financially and non-financial.

    I doubt many ex AC pilots are going to supermarkets when the wages in airlines are higher

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