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  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    It looks like the Swiss people will overwhelmingly vote in support of the replacement of their F/A-18s.
    Strange that the ordinary people of a neutral nation with no enemy on their borders would see the need for such aircraft.
    It was close 50.2% for new fighters

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    • Yeah, initial tallies showed a much larger gap.
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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      • They also voted to keep free movement in the EU. Because of the high cost of living in Switzerland, a sizeable amount of the population cross the borders daily to shop, work and spend their leisure money. A huge amount of Swiss college students study outside the home country. On all their borders, Swiss citizens own or rent a huge amount of property outside their own country. Nice place to live, shame about the taxes. As for defence, a strong defence has always been part of their national policy.

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        • In effect though, the Swiss just voted to a dramatic increase in Defence spending by 1.4% annually. There is a huge "No army" lobby group though.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            In effect though, the Swiss just voted to a dramatic increase in Defence spending by 1.4% annually. There is a huge "No army" lobby group though.
            If one looks at their geopolitical position they are even better protected than us, they are completely surrounded by friendly countries through which any aggressor would have to pass. The surrounding airspace (with exception of Austrian) is guarded by NATO air forces, and there is no treat of naval assault yet they see the need for a strong air force.
            Neutrality does not come free even if many here would like us all to believe that.

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            • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
              They also voted to keep free movement in the EU. Because of the high cost of living in Switzerland, a sizeable amount of the population cross the borders daily to shop, work and spend their leisure money. A huge amount of Swiss college students study outside the home country. On all their borders, Swiss citizens own or rent a huge amount of property outside their own country. Nice place to live, shame about the taxes. As for defence, a strong defence has always been part of their national policy.
              The overall tax burden is Switzerland is one of the lowest in Europe, they government spending is around 33% of GDP, this compares to 45% in Germany and a massive 55% in France. In some Canton's the maximum rate of income tax is only 22%, so the sterotype does not always match reality.

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              • Did the swiss voters not previously block an earlier deal on Gripens replacing their F5s?
                It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                It was the year everything changed.

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                • Originally posted by CTU View Post
                  Did the swiss voters not previously block an earlier deal on Gripens replacing their F5s?
                  They did, because the purchase of the jets was tied into cuts to spending on Education. They were to pay $3bn up front for 22 Gripen NG (which evolved into the Gripen E), and the Greens suggested the overall lifetime cost of the aircraft could be as much as $11bn. $450m of this would go to Local Offsets. Leasing of 11 C/Ds was part of the contract, while the the new aircraft were being built to enable crew training.
                  Another difference was these aircraft were to replace in service just the F5, while the F/A-18 were still in service. Difficult to justify keeping 2 types for the same role. Yesterdays vote replaces all aircraft in that role in service.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • I wonder if now the Swiss have decided they will go for a new fighter with selection soon will it have an effect on Austria?

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                    • I recall talking with a Swiss man of Italian heritage and asking about the canton voting system,when women didn't have the vote there. "oh, they have the vote, alright. My missus makes it quite clear to me what her political opinion is!" Swiss wives weren't noted for being ignored in political matters. Swiss politicians are always wary of upsetting the canton system and you wouldn't get away with running roughshod over the voter like our pols do.

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                      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                        I wonder if now the Swiss have decided they will go for a new fighter with selection soon will it have an effect on Austria?
                        Different priorities. While Slovenia to the south still has no interceptors to speak of, Austria does not have the Air defence bubble that Switzerland enjoys.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                        • Austria appears to prioritise helicopters over combat aircraft. It's kept those Saab 105s going long after they became obsolete.

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                          • US intention to sell Switzerland Fighter jets has been published by DSCA.



                            Interesting thing is this:
                            40 F/A-18E/F plus all the danglies = $7.452bn ($186.3m each)
                            40 F35 (A model CTOL) plus dangly bits = $6.58bn ($164.5m each)

                            How is the F35 suddenly cheaper than the Super Hornet?
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • The big F - 35 news at the moment ( apart from unfortunate interactions with KC-130s...) is that the price for the A model is down to $77m a copy. I'm not sure what that includes though. Maybe the difference in cost is being made up in the economies of scale with the support and logistics systems being spread over a larger customer base than the F/A 18 E/F?

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                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                US intention to sell Switzerland Fighter jets has been published by DSCA.



                                Interesting thing is this:
                                40 F/A-18E/F plus all the danglies = $7.452bn ($186.3m each)
                                40 F35 (A model CTOL) plus dangly bits = $6.58bn ($164.5m each)

                                How is the F35 suddenly cheaper than the Super Hornet?
                                Economies of scale, the F35 production is truly in full swing now, while the Super Hornet line has US Navy orders to finish and an order from Kuwait. The rate of Hornet production has been slowed down in a hope to keep it open until potential orders from Canada, Finland, Germany and India can be secured. The cost per airframe is consequently higher since they must cover the cost of lower volume production runs while retaining the skilled work force. Those costs also are for different packages, spares, munitions, training, potentially infrastructure upgrades to existing facilities.

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