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  1. #576
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    Why would a minister have to ask a CS for approval?

    Sorry, but I think there's a streak of using the CS/DOD as a convenient target - and yes, the toxic/poisonous attitude that the DOD has towards defence is well known throughout Europe - very few of the offers/initial conversations I've heard about, from the UK, France, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Canada have been met with any kind of enthusiasm. That may be DF and ministers being beaten down, or not wanting to their hopes up, but the attitude isn't constructive or about problem solving, or understanding how it would benefit defence and persuading others of that.

    If you get a response it's just a list of barriers - not problems to be solved - just barriers. Truth is, o don't think there's any real appetite for overseas exercises, even when all the logistics are laid on.
    I’m absolutely not doubting you for one second but this is reality.

    If DoD don’t want something to happen they will actively attempt to block it.

    The Minister says x is happening, the DoD advises against and that is the best case
    Last edited by DeV; 30th June 2020 at 01:17.

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  3. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    About 20 years ago the DF made a bid to run their own budget just like our Police force. CS fought it with the line on a radio interview that they were protecting the state from the danger of a military takeover. Interviewer replied that the most heavily armed group in the county would not be deterred just because some civil servant locks the cheque book in a drawer.
    with regard to the DF actually running their own budget, would you really trust VSOs with the cheque book? What financial training have they, that wouild justify giving them the keys to the safe? Are they qualified accountants or tax experts? Have they any proven budgeting experience? Would they piss it all away on shiny things?

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  5. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    with regard to the DF actually running their own budget, would you really trust VSOs with the cheque book? What financial training have they, that wouild justify giving them the keys to the safe? Are they qualified accountants or tax experts? Have they any proven budgeting experience? Would they piss it all away on shiny things?
    Garda Commissioner holds the chequebook for the Garda Budget, not the Sec Gen of the DoJ. He has as much financial training as the CoS (and probably more qualified to manage a budget than SecGen Dod). They don't get to that position without having to manage an account or two along the way.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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  7. #579
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    We also have to get away from the mindset that it's a great thing that the DOD returns money to the DOF...use the fecking budget lads.

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  9. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
    We also have to get away from the mindset that it's a great thing that the DOD returns money to the DOF...use the fecking budget lads.
    If anything, it shows budget mismanagement. Fine to hand it back when all projects are completed, but this has not been the case.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  11. #581
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
    We also have to get away from the mindset that it's a great thing that the DOD returns money to the DOF...use the fecking budget lads.
    And yet there are 2 (Good) roads that my local council digs up in Q4 annually to spend the budget

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  13. #582
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  15. #583
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    with regard to the DF actually running their own budget, would you really trust VSOs with the cheque book? What financial training have they, that wouild justify giving them the keys to the safe? Are they qualified accountants or tax experts? Have they any proven budgeting experience? Would they piss it all away on shiny things?
    It doesn’t mean that NS Ensign can go an purchase the MRV there are checks, balances and controls. With control comes responsibility and training

  16. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    And yet there are 2 (Good) roads that my local council digs up in Q4 annually to spend the budget
    That comes from the opposite budget mindset of Use it or Lose it, especially worse when rules exist to stop Budget holders from diverting any excess money to something else which may benefit from it.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  18. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    And yet there are 2 (Good) roads that my local council digs up in Q4 annually to spend the budget
    Hopefully they not only dig them up but repair them before the money runs out.
    We only look at the number of road widen schemes etc, started late in the year to burn the money that then never get completed as the money is burned by the end of the year and the scheme has not been budgeted for.

  19. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    That comes from the opposite budget mindset of Use it or Lose it, especially worse when rules exist to stop Budget holders from diverting any excess money to something else which may benefit from it.
    This is the worst especially when the project has been delayed by admin eg. late contract. Then everything moves except the budget, first year underspend, second year on target, final year lack of budget to complete project properly.

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  21. #587
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    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/irel...-jet-fighters/

    Check out the F16 in irish colours, which they accept is bad photoshopping.
    Otherwise a good article.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  23. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
    We also have to get away from the mindset that it's a great thing that the DOD returns money to the DOF...use the fecking budget lads.
    In any other department not using up your budget is gross incompetence. Are they looking for a pat on the head, or doing it to spite the military.

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  25. #589
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    Lease or buy a few of those upgraded MiG-21 Lancers from the Romanians? I bet they'd bite your hand off for the chance to flog them off. Run them for ten years and throw them away afterwards.

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  27. #590
    Amadan Orion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    And yet there are 2 (Good) roads that my local council digs up in Q4 annually to spend the budget
    Surely that's why they're good .......

  28. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Lease or buy a few of those upgraded MiG-21 Lancers from the Romanians? I bet they'd bite your hand off for the chance to flog them off. Run them for ten years and throw them away afterwards.
    Have you heard them? If they took off from the don, everyone in naas would be complaining about the noise.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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  29. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Have you heard them? If they took off from the don, everyone in naas would be complaining about the noise.
    Wouldn't the noise issue be a problem for any QRA no matter the plane?

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  31. #593
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    Base them in Shannon;no problems there with Russian aircraft.

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  33. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Lease or buy a few of those upgraded MiG-21 Lancers from the Romanians? I bet they'd bite your hand off for the chance to flog them off. Run them for ten years and throw them away afterwards.
    You might get 10 weeks out of them and that is if you are lucky. The Lancers are past the "use by date", they have an availability rate way under 50%, the accident rate is almost F104 like and out of the 110 modernised between 1995 and 2000 only 28 are still airworthy. They are being replaced with second hand F16s which can also be obtained if we wanted to go down that road.

    Also do not forget where the spares for the airframe and engine come from!!
    Last edited by EUFighter; 1st July 2020 at 06:26.

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  35. #595
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Surely that's why they're good .......
    They would be good if they left them alone

    Irish Water was doing upgrade works last year (24/7 works for a number of months) and had to dig up much of a road and resurfaced it - was a perfect surface. Apparently it was a temporary surface, the permanent surface they laid wasn’t as good as what was there before

  36. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Wouldn't the noise issue be a problem for any QRA no matter the plane?
    You haven't heard a Mig 21.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  38. #597
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    That's proper noise,that is. None of yer Fouga screech here. If you are going to go deaf, do it in style. V Rossii,Mig oglushayet tebya!

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  40. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    You might get 10 weeks out of them and that is if you are lucky. The Lancers are past the "use by date", they have an availability rate way under 50%, the accident rate is almost F104 like and out of the 110 modernised between 1995 and 2000 only 28 are still airworthy. They are being replaced with second hand F16s which can also be obtained if we wanted to go down that road.

    Also do not forget where the spares for the airframe and engine come from!!
    well, then, the pilots would get real time ejection experience, the fire crews would get practise on putting out aircraft fires and landowners would get new ornaments,albeit smoking a bit from a deep hole. (i'm joking, okay??!!"

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  42. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    That's proper noise,that is. None of yer Fouga screech here. If you are going to go deaf, do it in style. V Rossii,Mig oglushayet tebya!
    Better to go for the MiG29 it has double the fun and double the noise

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  44. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    That's proper noise,that is. None of yer Fouga screech here. If you are going to go deaf, do it in style. V Rossii,Mig oglushayet tebya!
    I last heard it in 1994, and to say my eardrums were offended is an understatement. You can feel the damage being done as it literally tears apart the air around it.
    No clip will do justice to how horrible it sounds. That crackle noise is when you try to stick your fist into your ear to block it out.


    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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