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Defending the Irish airspace

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  • They could go Government to government, and then not need to go through the tender process.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      They could go Government to government, and then not need to go through the tender process.
      They could but the JAS39 contains ITAR material so the US Gov approval would be required. An open tender would not remove this but it would ehlp.

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      • Today, Sweden submitted its proposal of 12 new Gripen C/D fighter aircraft to Croatia.


        Croatia the latest nation to be invited to become a member of the Gripen club.
        Representatives of the Swedish Defence Material Administration (FMV) and the Swedish Embassy in Croatia submitted the government-to-government proposal of 12 new Gripen C/D fighter aircraft to the Croatian authorities. Parallel to Sweden’s proposal, Saab is offering a tailored made strategic cooperation package that will boost the Croatian defence industry, and benefit Croatian security by building a long-term partnership with strategic sectors.
        They would presumably be replacing Croatia's 12 Mig 21BisD/UMD. Croatia also use 14 Pilatus PC-9 as a trainer aircraft, in addition to 5 Zlin Z42.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • Croatia has the added incentive of fear of Serbia, which has also bene upgrading it's air arm.

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          • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
            Croatia has the added incentive of fear of Serbia, which has also bene upgrading it's air arm.
            Serbia has as much to fear from Croatia. Don't forget Croatia started the whole thing. Its a bit like saying we need to beef up the NI border in case the UK tries to invade...
            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
              Serbia has as much to fear from Croatia. Don't forget Croatia started the whole thing. Its a bit like saying we need to beef up the NI border in case the UK tries to invade...
              Croatia exercised self determination and Yugoslavia (ie Serbia) reacted

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              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                Croatia exercised self determination and Yugoslavia (ie Serbia) reacted
                That's one of many versions of events. That's what happens when you decide that many of the people born in your country, who have lived nowhere else and who can trace their lineage to no other place, are suddenly "Foreign" and should go back to their own country.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  24-36 to provide 24/7 QRA ??? And there isn't a hope of us getting more that 14 of anything even out of the boneyard F16s

                  Denmark as a NATO member has 30 F16s
                  Switzerland has 25 F/A18s (and 29 F5s)

                  NATO covers the 3 Baltics states 24/7 with a total of 4-12 aircraft (obviously they have more to back them up) I assume the increase is based on the threat
                  NATO covers Iceland with around 6 aircraft (again obviously they have more to back them up)
                  It is not so much about the number of aircraft but the number of pilots!
                  The examples of NATO QRA are the numbers of aircraft on QRA at any one time, it is not the total number required to achieve this number. Normally a QRA station will have four aircraft at any one time, two ready for immediate launch and two back-up. Remember we will not have AAR to extend their time so the first pair need a replacement back-up. RAF pilots to 1-2 QRA rotations of 24hrs per month, that would mean a minimum of 60 pilots for an RAF rotation system. It is possible however to reduce by use of more QRA rotations and shift systems the numbers down to the 30's. Below that number 24/7 stops being an option, remember the Swiss and Austrians where not doing 24/7 for a long time.

                  As for any nation within NATO they collectively cover the air space so countries such as Denmark do not need to go it alone, that is the advantage of being in a military alliance. As for the Swiss they have 30 F/A18s, and 30(+6) F5s in total, and they struggled to provide 24/7 coverage.

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                  • In the absence of AAR aircraft if your QRA could buddy tank, you'd get by.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      In the absence of AAR aircraft if your QRA could buddy tank, you'd get by.
                      But then you need more aircraft as the needs to be the aircraft to provide the buddy tanking.
                      It is just simpler to have those aircraft take over while the initial pair return to base for refueling as there is no time wasted doing the AAR.

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                      • A useful guide possibly for a basic operation is No. 1435 Flight in Mount Pleasant, Falkland Islands. 4 Aircraft (currently Typhoon FGR4).
                        Of course because of it's location, the RAF also keep a Airbus Voyager KC2 there, but otherwise 4 interceptors, (2 up, 2 on standby) seems to work for them. Often wonder what level of maint is done there, are the aircraft rotated home for all downtime or are they happy to keep 50% availability with tanker?
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          A useful guide possibly for a basic operation is No. 1435 Flight in Mount Pleasant, Falkland Islands. 4 Aircraft (currently Typhoon FGR4).
                          Of course because of it's location, the RAF also keep a Airbus Voyager KC2 there, but otherwise 4 interceptors, (2 up, 2 on standby) seems to work for them. Often wonder what level of maint is done there, are the aircraft rotated home for all downtime or are they happy to keep 50% availability with tanker?
                          I am sure I read some where that it was 2 QRA, 1 Reserve, 1 Maintenance and that aircraft entering the Falklands FIR tend to be "Intercepted" for training purposes.
                          It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                          It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                          It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                          It was the year everything changed.

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                          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                            But then you need more aircraft as the needs to be the aircraft to provide the buddy tanking.
                            It is just simpler to have those aircraft take over while the initial pair return to base for refueling as there is no time wasted doing the AAR.
                            Or refuel at Sligo/Knock/Shannon/Kerry/Cork

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                            • The RAF 905th Expeditionary Air Wing consists of two Flights, 1435 with 4x Eurofighters and 1312 with a A330 MRTT and a A400M. Both of the latter can refuel the Eurofighters should this be required.

                              Thus the combination of 2 QRA aircraft with a AAR aircraft enables the four deployed aircraft to maintain contact with any bogie they may encounter. However when one of the QRA aircraft needs to refuel it will detach from the bogie and transit to the tanker, it place can be then taken by the reserve aircraft.

                              But aircraft are not the only limiting factor it is the availability of the pilots, it would be possible to get away with just 8 aircraft but each having 4 pilots. Each pilot needs 200 hours per year and given an airframe life of 8000hrs would mean that the planes would last 10 years. As most would expect such a weapons system to have a 30 year life then then minimum number of fighters would be 24, to give some operational flexibility 32 is probably a better figure.

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                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                Or refuel at Sligo/Knock/Shannon/Kerry/Cork
                                Once they detach from the bogie to refuel they need to be replaced by a second pair.
                                And do not forget about Donegal and Waterford!

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