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  1. #901
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    They could go Government to government, and then not need to go through the tender process.
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  2. #902
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    They could go Government to government, and then not need to go through the tender process.
    They could but the JAS39 contains ITAR material so the US Gov approval would be required. An open tender would not remove this but it would ehlp.

  3. #903
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    https://news.cision.com/saab/r/swede...oatia,c3191572

    Croatia the latest nation to be invited to become a member of the Gripen club.
    Representatives of the Swedish Defence Material Administration (FMV) and the Swedish Embassy in Croatia submitted the government-to-government proposal of 12 new Gripen C/D fighter aircraft to the Croatian authorities. Parallel to Sweden’s proposal, Saab is offering a tailored made strategic cooperation package that will boost the Croatian defence industry, and benefit Croatian security by building a long-term partnership with strategic sectors.
    They would presumably be replacing Croatia's 12 Mig 21BisD/UMD. Croatia also use 14 Pilatus PC-9 as a trainer aircraft, in addition to 5 Zlin Z42.
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  5. #904
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    Croatia has the added incentive of fear of Serbia, which has also bene upgrading it's air arm.

  6. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Croatia has the added incentive of fear of Serbia, which has also bene upgrading it's air arm.
    Serbia has as much to fear from Croatia. Don't forget Croatia started the whole thing. Its a bit like saying we need to beef up the NI border in case the UK tries to invade...
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  7. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Serbia has as much to fear from Croatia. Don't forget Croatia started the whole thing. Its a bit like saying we need to beef up the NI border in case the UK tries to invade...
    Croatia exercised self determination and Yugoslavia (ie Serbia) reacted

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  9. #907
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Croatia exercised self determination and Yugoslavia (ie Serbia) reacted
    That's one of many versions of events. That's what happens when you decide that many of the people born in your country, who have lived nowhere else and who can trace their lineage to no other place, are suddenly "Foreign" and should go back to their own country.
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  10. #908
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    24-36 to provide 24/7 QRA ??? And there isn't a hope of us getting more that 14 of anything even out of the boneyard F16s

    Denmark as a NATO member has 30 F16s
    Switzerland has 25 F/A18s (and 29 F5s)

    NATO covers the 3 Baltics states 24/7 with a total of 4-12 aircraft (obviously they have more to back them up) I assume the increase is based on the threat
    NATO covers Iceland with around 6 aircraft (again obviously they have more to back them up)
    It is not so much about the number of aircraft but the number of pilots!
    The examples of NATO QRA are the numbers of aircraft on QRA at any one time, it is not the total number required to achieve this number. Normally a QRA station will have four aircraft at any one time, two ready for immediate launch and two back-up. Remember we will not have AAR to extend their time so the first pair need a replacement back-up. RAF pilots to 1-2 QRA rotations of 24hrs per month, that would mean a minimum of 60 pilots for an RAF rotation system. It is possible however to reduce by use of more QRA rotations and shift systems the numbers down to the 30's. Below that number 24/7 stops being an option, remember the Swiss and Austrians where not doing 24/7 for a long time.

    As for any nation within NATO they collectively cover the air space so countries such as Denmark do not need to go it alone, that is the advantage of being in a military alliance. As for the Swiss they have 30 F/A18s, and 30(+6) F5s in total, and they struggled to provide 24/7 coverage.

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  12. #909
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    In the absence of AAR aircraft if your QRA could buddy tank, you'd get by.
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  13. #910
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    In the absence of AAR aircraft if your QRA could buddy tank, you'd get by.
    But then you need more aircraft as the needs to be the aircraft to provide the buddy tanking.
    It is just simpler to have those aircraft take over while the initial pair return to base for refueling as there is no time wasted doing the AAR.

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  15. #911
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    A useful guide possibly for a basic operation is No. 1435 Flight in Mount Pleasant, Falkland Islands. 4 Aircraft (currently Typhoon FGR4).
    Of course because of it's location, the RAF also keep a Airbus Voyager KC2 there, but otherwise 4 interceptors, (2 up, 2 on standby) seems to work for them. Often wonder what level of maint is done there, are the aircraft rotated home for all downtime or are they happy to keep 50% availability with tanker?
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  17. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    A useful guide possibly for a basic operation is No. 1435 Flight in Mount Pleasant, Falkland Islands. 4 Aircraft (currently Typhoon FGR4).
    Of course because of it's location, the RAF also keep a Airbus Voyager KC2 there, but otherwise 4 interceptors, (2 up, 2 on standby) seems to work for them. Often wonder what level of maint is done there, are the aircraft rotated home for all downtime or are they happy to keep 50% availability with tanker?
    I am sure I read some where that it was 2 QRA, 1 Reserve, 1 Maintenance and that aircraft entering the Falklands FIR tend to be "Intercepted" for training purposes.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  19. #913
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    But then you need more aircraft as the needs to be the aircraft to provide the buddy tanking.
    It is just simpler to have those aircraft take over while the initial pair return to base for refueling as there is no time wasted doing the AAR.
    Or refuel at Sligo/Knock/Shannon/Kerry/Cork

  20. #914
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    The RAF 905th Expeditionary Air Wing consists of two Flights, 1435 with 4x Eurofighters and 1312 with a A330 MRTT and a A400M. Both of the latter can refuel the Eurofighters should this be required.

    Thus the combination of 2 QRA aircraft with a AAR aircraft enables the four deployed aircraft to maintain contact with any bogie they may encounter. However when one of the QRA aircraft needs to refuel it will detach from the bogie and transit to the tanker, it place can be then taken by the reserve aircraft.

    But aircraft are not the only limiting factor it is the availability of the pilots, it would be possible to get away with just 8 aircraft but each having 4 pilots. Each pilot needs 200 hours per year and given an airframe life of 8000hrs would mean that the planes would last 10 years. As most would expect such a weapons system to have a 30 year life then then minimum number of fighters would be 24, to give some operational flexibility 32 is probably a better figure.

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  22. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Or refuel at Sligo/Knock/Shannon/Kerry/Cork
    Once they detach from the bogie to refuel they need to be replaced by a second pair.
    And do not forget about Donegal and Waterford!

  23. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Once they detach from the bogie to refuel they need to be replaced by a second pair.
    And do not forget about Donegal and Waterford!
    Realistically based on current patterns of activity we would receive enough advanced warning from the U.K. to move to Donegal/Finner/Cork neck of the woods to refuel prior to intercept.

    If we were doing 2+2, the next 2 aircraft could be propositioned to Launch when the first 2 had to RTB.

    Why not Waterford? Unlikely to be coming that direction and that airspace isn’t as big compared to the rest of Irish controlled airspace

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  25. #917
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    The majority of QRA launches are not related to Russian Bears, most launches in Europe are ATC related, failure to communicate or navigation errors. Could be a Ryanair returning from the Canaries and failing to contact ATC for whatever reason.

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  27. #918
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    Beech Baron interception, brought to you by Saab Gripen.
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  29. #919
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    If this story is confirmed then it is a worrying development especially for any future peacekeeping missions. It seems Russia is using the Wagner Group (Russia's Blackwater Group) to supply 4th gen fighters to rebels in Libya, a mix of MiG-29 and Su-24 aircraft. If the UN or the EU ever decide it is time to bring the fighting in Libya to an end then the presence of Russian mercenaries fly advanced combat aircraft could be a serious issue. It is one thing to be attacked by a Fouga quiet another if it is a Fencer protected by a Fulcrum.

    https://defence-blog.com/news/mig-29...ver-libya.html

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  31. #920
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    If this story is confirmed then it is a worrying development especially for any future peacekeeping missions. It seems Russia is using the Wagner Group (Russia's Blackwater Group) to supply 4th gen fighters to rebels in Libya, a mix of MiG-29 and Su-24 aircraft. If the UN or the EU ever decide it is time to bring the fighting in Libya to an end then the presence of Russian mercenaries fly advanced combat aircraft could be a serious issue. It is one thing to be attacked by a Fouga quiet another if it is a Fencer protected by a Fulcrum.

    https://defence-blog.com/news/mig-29...ver-libya.html
    So which country allied to the US did these aircraft overfly to get from Iran to Syria??

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  33. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    If this story is confirmed then it is a worrying development especially for any future peacekeeping missions. It seems Russia is using the Wagner Group (Russia's Blackwater Group) to supply 4th gen fighters to rebels in Libya, a mix of MiG-29 and Su-24 aircraft. If the UN or the EU ever decide it is time to bring the fighting in Libya to an end then the presence of Russian mercenaries fly advanced combat aircraft could be a serious issue. It is one thing to be attacked by a Fouga quiet another if it is a Fencer protected by a Fulcrum.

    https://defence-blog.com/news/mig-29...ver-libya.html
    I’m sure every 4th Gen fighter manufacturer in the west would like a “Proven in combat” sticker on their sales brochure, not to mention everyone spending a significant proportion of their GDP on F-35’s. I’d say if it goes hot, lots of people will be wanting to go to Lybia and take a pop at them.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  34. #922
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    Didn't the Chinese do similar for the Korean war?
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  35. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Serbia has as much to fear from Croatia. Don't forget Croatia started the whole thing. Its a bit like saying we need to beef up the NI border in case the UK tries to invade...
    Serbia had, and still does, the greater mass of the then Yugoslav armed forces, the greatest of the whole mass of arms factories and the direct support of Russia. Croatia was more known for cigarette smuggling and the amount of it's population working in Germany. Both sides considered that they had unfinished business to settle since the days of German occupation in WW 2. When you are dealing with people who think that the 14th century Battle of Kosovo is still headline news, then WW2 is mentally regarded as a topical event and don't even mention the Balkan Wars 1900-1914. Croatia is tottering along with ancient MiG-21s and cant or wont buy the modern fighters they really need, especially in the face of Serbia having easy access to modernised Mig-29s and deadlier SAMs.

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  37. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I’m sure every 4th Gen fighter manufacturer in the west would like a “Proven in combat” sticker on their sales brochure, not to mention everyone spending a significant proportion of their GDP on F-35’s. I’d say if it goes hot, lots of people will be wanting to go to Lybia and take a pop at them.
    At the moment it looks like Turkey (F-16s) on one side against Russians (MiG-29s) and Egyptians (F-16s & Rafales) on the other. Could get messy!
    The question is, if a peacekeeping force is ever to be deployed will it need to have air combat capability? Would part of any separation of the opposing parties be a no-fly zone?

  38. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    So which country allied to the US did these aircraft overfly to get from Iran to Syria??
    I do not know if Iraq can be classed as an US ally???? There are plenty in the Iraqi government who would like nothing more than to see the last American presence leave their country.

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