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  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    I have heard of Blue-on-blue but this is taking it a bit far.

    https://defence-blog.com/news/nether...-exercise.html
    I wonder could the pilot paint an little Dutch flag on the side of his cockpit?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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    • Not without precedent - an F-11F Tiger shot itself down in the same manner.

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      • Not the first time. Ricochets from the range has downed more than one aircraft.

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        • According to Scramble Magazine on FB, FMV Sweden ordered 10 JAS39C’s and 4 JAS39D’s (“white tails”) that it doesn’t want/need in order to keep the production line open in the hope of getting an export customer... which they haven’t got yet

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          • Evidently built airframes but without the engine or cockpit / avionics fit-out.

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            • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
              Evidently built airframes but without the engine or cockpit / avionics fit-out.
              That would suit DoD.

              Minister can stand up in Dail and say we have the ability to defend our air space against all threats, neutrality assured, cost effective .....

              Just the civil servant writing the PQ answer leaves out the non-flying bit

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              • And photo-op for anybody who needs one standing in front of said airplanes, also keeping the crusties happy by having zero emissions or warlike function.

                Everybody’s happy! (Except for the DF, but who ever cares about them...)
                'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                Comment





                • Saab bundles two GlobalEye AWACS aircraft into Finnish HX (fighter replacement) bid.

                  Similar population.
                  Similar economy.
                  Traditionally neutral, formally militarily non-aligned.
                  Similar area of interest (trading North Atlantic EEZ for forest & tundra).

                  GDP expenditure on defence; Finland 1.29%, Ireland 0.4%.
                  Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 20 June 2019, 13:39.

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                  • Finland takes defence seriously because of the big naughty neighbour next door, has never forgotten the wars, various with Russia and knows that it always has to keep an eye on Russia / Kaliningrad. Russian access to Northern and Polar waters worries them because formerly icebound territories have become freed up, thanks to global warming and better icebreakers so they are no longer dependent on the Baltic and can easily cross from Murmansk to the Far East. The Finns constantly train and exercise their reserves as well as their main army, unlike here.

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                    • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                      Finland takes defence seriously because of the big naughty neighbour next door, has never forgotten the wars, various with Russia and knows that it always has to keep an eye on Russia / Kaliningrad. Russian access to Northern and Polar waters worries them because formerly icebound territories have become freed up, thanks to global warming and better icebreakers so they are no longer dependent on the Baltic and can easily cross from Murmansk to the Far East. The Finns constantly train and exercise their reserves as well as their main army, unlike here.
                      All you need to say is "Finland takes defence seriously, Ireland does not know what defence means"!

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                      • I wonder how many similar deals this state has lost out on because of our supposed "neutrality". I'm sure if we had worded it correctly, the US would have been happy to have provided us with surplus Blackhawk type helicopters when we were looking for a UH. But our tender specified new, not 2nd hand.
                        By the same token, the RAF recenty removed many of its low airframe hours hawks from service. I'm sure they would have made a good Fouga/Warrior replacement, long before we had to go down the Pilatus route. With actual combat usefulness, depending on type.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                        • There's a very good book on the Irish Fougas by Radu Brinzan et al and the former GOC, Paul Fry, elaborates on the selection process that occurred for the replacement of the Fouga. Now, bear in mind that over the years, PF flew a lot of the contenders that visited Baldonnel so he knew what he was talking about; Alpha Jets, Hawks, Jet Provosts, MB 326 and 339 and a host of others and the one constant refrain is how the DoD would simply quash anything that was considered too warry or too expensive or didnt fit into their view of things; time and again, decent aircraft that were ideal for Ireland were sidestepped and the least useful solution was found, Fougas, essentially obsolete when they entered service and deeply unfit for the modern age when they were finally stood down. When you look at a PC-9 and realise that it jumped an entire generation in terms of utility and equipment fit, just to make the Don faintly equivalent in training terms with it's European neighbours; (ejection seats, EFIS instruments, data loading, HUD, multiple pylons, single lever turbine operation). It was the equivalent of going from a 1960s 737-200 to a 1990s 737-800 overnight. Same with the helicopters; the Alouettes were held on for far too long, while the ideal replacement for them was quietly plugging away in the background, flying for the Gardai, the ultra reliable and easy to use Squirrel, spares available worldwide. As for the Army, Panhards held on, and on and on, until they finally bought Mowags, basically because they had been embarrassed into doing so. defence purchasing in Ireland would make your eyes water.

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                          • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                            .... the one constant refrain is how the DoD would simply quash anything that was considered too warry or too expensive or didnt fit into their view of things; time and again, decent aircraft that were ideal for Ireland were sidestepped and the least useful solution was found, ....
                            Would it be impertinent to suggest that in Ireland, Department of Defence positions generally have more to do with shuffling civil servants around various departments to build career experience and moving up the civil service pay grades, than it has to do with actual experience and qualifications within the specialisation that is Defence. It used to be the case where I am from but, about 10 years ago our then PM had the bright idea that at least within the Capability Branch at the Defence Ministry, having people who actually knew about Defence in the job may be a better idea than some mug parachuted in from Inland Revenue or Treasury.

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                            • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
                              Would it be impertinent to suggest that in Ireland, Department of Defence positions generally have more to do with shuffling civil servants around various departments to build career experience and moving up the civil service pay grades, than it has to do with actual experience and qualifications within the specialisation that is Defence. It used to be the case where I am from but, about 10 years ago our then PM had the bright idea that at least within the Capability Branch at the Defence Ministry, having people who actually knew about Defence in the job may be a better idea than some mug parachuted in from Inland Revenue or Treasury.
                              I remember a news story during the whole Decentralisation Debacle.. I mean Project that the DoD was oversubscribed for civil service transfers because of its "New" Location.
                              It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                              It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                              It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                              It was the year everything changed.

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                              • GlobalEye, another value .. product from SAAB (via Google Translate, Original in Finnish)

                                My understanding is that this particular airborne box of tricks can detect a jet-ski from up to 400km.

                                An overnight surveillance flight could be used to radically improve tasking for the next morning's MPA flights.

                                Any prospect of the Swedes being interested in a low-profile, week-long, narcotics interdiction exercise?

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