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Defending the Irish airspace

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  • #31
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    20 pilots would probably strip at least 2 existing squadrons of all their pilots
    Depends on the parameters, 20 aircrew is a realistic figure, but flying an FJ is a very demanding job, all the more reason to organise such training with suitable people in other forces, good ones like the US navy, or the Israelies...
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Turkey View Post
      20 aircrew is a realistic figure
      10 new pilots received there wings today. You know as well as I do why the class is so big and it isn't because there is spare aircrew in Baldonnel

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      • #33
        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        10 new pilots received there wings today. You know as well as I do why the class is so big and it isn't because there is spare aircrew in Baldonnel
        Yup, Air Corps pilots tend to have more hours the a lot of other military organisation.
        "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
        Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
        Illegitimi non carborundum

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Turkey View Post
          Yup, Air Corps pilots tend to have more hours the a lot of other military organisation.
          That's the way the brother officer pilots have it , lots of hours up on the log book for leaving,

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          • #35
            Originally posted by apc View Post
            I think thats the point, thinking we can have some sort of intercept capability with fast jets is wishful thinking.
            This is it , can you imagine an Irish Gov ordering aircraft to fire at anything other than the targets off Gormo.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by apc View Post
              I think thats the point, thinking we can have some sort of intercept capability with fast jets is wishful thinking.
              That is why I argue for radar first - it would help change the mindset.

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              • #37
                what is the point in having the radar if you cant go up and have look.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
                  what is the point in having the radar if you cant go up and have look.
                  No point in having a look if ya don't know where to look, so we sort out the radar first, getting valuable education, while directing our neighbors on the big island to the east, while it slowly, very slowly, dawns on the bean counters that we have a gap in our defences and our credibility as a sovereign nation.
                  "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                  Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                  Illegitimi non carborundum

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    When talking about patroling our airspace I feel that we should have short/medium/long term aspirations. Doing a comparison with the RAF is not helpfull ...they are playing wargames and politics with Russia. At the moment we are incapable of doing much as we have no radar/interceptors and we don't know what's going on above our heads.
                    Any form of Radar is preferrable to none (even if it shared with our civilian agency to ease costs as others here have suggested) Most here seem to think a deal with Saab for a small number(4 perhaps)of older Saabs is doable. Others then pitch in with the impossibility of having a 24 hour instant reaction force and having a score of pilots permanently on call etc.

                    I think we should not be trying to match the military blocks in their posturing abilities. We should however be capable of actually displaying an actual presence up there. Get the aircraft and formulate our own (affordable) patrol policy. For want of something better we could call it "Russian Roulette". IF anyone is flying something or somewhere they shouldn't be they should have in the back of their minds the "possibility" that they might find a Grippen with a Sidewinder on their wingtip.
                    We need to be able to patrol our airspace....Not defend it from the US airforce. I think it would be a good idea to discuss what we can do that might be "affordable" and explained to the population as a national policing obligation as a non-aligned country.
                    Last edited by Galloglass; 31 July 2016, 13:35.

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                    • #40
                      Are there any reliable stats on the frequency that aircraft in stealth mode have executed unauthorised penetrations of Irish airspace?

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                      • #41
                        Ask the IAA, the primary radar operators.....the 9 pilots who got their wings are filling the shoes of the lot that have left. Air corps pilots often had as few as 300 hrs a year and they were glad to have it. If they are getting their 900 a year, then that's because of the Casa, the Defender and increased military heli tempo. It's no comparison with a fast jet pilot in a NATO country getting 300 hrs on a combat aircraft. In fact, in some countries, FJ pilots were getting 150 hrs a year (and less) because of budget cuts, on the primary fighters and filling in with trainer time to stay current. I recall one MiG 21 operator in post Warpac-days giving their pilots 40 hrs on type and the same on L-29/39 and NATO regarded them as unsafe and below combat readiness. So, if you dream about Irish Gripens, be prepared to fund 300 hrs a year on FJ and/or Hawk or L39 to stay up to par. Now, you are getting into silly money so it comes back to leasing in an AD package from Sweden or the UK. Don't forget we have no SAM or AAA defence of any decent standing, so new radar would simply be to tell us where the naughty people are.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by danno View Post
                          Are there any reliable stats on the frequency that aircraft in stealth mode have executed unauthorised penetrations of Irish airspace?
                          Nope. that is why I want the radar.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
                            what is the point in having the radar if you cant go up and have look.
                            We're hoping the politicos cone to the same conclusion once the radar is running!

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                            • #44
                              so we get radar then what call UK and say come over have look for us theres something in our airspace..

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                              • #45
                                Some great fantasy going on here!

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