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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    And why on a shirt designed for barracks wear
    Yeah.That's what happens when the needs and wants of 7% of the members of an organisation are given precedence over the other 93%.IE the Females.

    Shirt was made "Unisex".Then after some negative comments about there being no proper pockets on the prototype shirt they just chuck one on to an existing design.
    No imagination at all. Also I guarantee that some dinosaur cribbed that if they DID fit a UBACS pocket on both sleeves "Where will the tricolour go?" Eh,on the blanking plate lower down like most other nations do.Or stitch it to the pocket lid if it's that big a problem for you.
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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    • Air Corps recruits.

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      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

      Comment


      • How long do you think it will be before some numpty decides the removable hood makes an ideal garment to wear without the smock?
        Also, I am not a fan of velcro for rank holder. Too easy to lose the slider (or anything else you decide to hang off it, like radio handset, if such a thing is still in use. I appreciate though that it is probably no longer a priority, given rank markings have moved to other places..
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • New smocks causing snags at my call sign. Recruits were sized using the old kit but when issued they got the new stuff. Sizes/fit are completely different.
          Cue 6ft odd recruits wearing smocks that are shorter than a shirt unable to pull the drawstring in around the waist as it is up around the middle of their ribs!

          Moral of the story. Make sure that if you are getting people issued kit that you warn them to expect that the new smocks are sized differently as it looks awful to see people wearing the wrong size for their height.
          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

          Comment


          • You can see the difference in the length of the new and old smocks in this Photo. Point to not being that the Lt.Col is wearing the CORRECT size for his height. Even still.They are much shorter. Bad move IMHO.
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            Here you can see the issue with the new smock collar. Worn up minus hood is neat enough but maybe a bit restrictive to have to wear it all mandarin collar style.
            Worn folded down looks terrible,due to the fleece lining IMHO.
            (Of course it looks even worse when worn with the hood attached.Either hanging down the back,as I have seen one recruit Pln doing,or worn with the hood tied around the collar using the velcro as I have seen another Pln doing)
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            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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            • That looks a terrible design

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              • Disagree completely.....massive improvement over existing smock. Never liked length of old smock. It was just extra materiel flapping around your hips and upper thighs.

                Sizing issues aside...the photos show a properly sized smock that is neat and looks much for practical / comfortable for tactical movement and wearing of CBA / IPLCS.

                Almost forget....if we're talking fashion trends for this spring.....definitely collar up
                Last edited by X-RayOne; 7 February 2020, 17:03.
                An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

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                • It reminds me somewhat of what the old og combats looked like, if you got one the right size.
                  Some shorter wearers of the old smock(mostly, but not always female) liked to wear them with the pockets lying just below their knees.
                  This is a huge improvement.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • I remember what it was like wearing the old combat jacket(a correctly fitting one) on exercise and the feckin thing riding up every time you knelt down.It also didn't cover your butt when sitting on cold/wet ground. I remember being very envious of the Wing with their smocks and was delighted when they went on general issue.

                    These new Jackets(That's what they are) are a retrograde move and go completely against all the recommendations that the ARW Special study group made back in '96 that led to the introduction of the smock in the first place! We are re-inventing the wheel.
                    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                    Comment


                    • These new Jackets(That's what they are) are a retrograde move and go completely against all the recommendations that the ARW Special study group made back in '96 that led to the introduction of the smock in the first place! We are re-inventing the wheel.
                      That looks like a massive backward step for our climate anyway, for all the time on stag I was glad once I finally got a smock as apod says it was chilly bum time mostly
                      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by apod View Post
                        These new Jackets(That's what they are) are a retrograde move and go completely against all the recommendations that the ARW Special study group made back in '96 that led to the introduction of the smock in the first place! We are re-inventing the wheel.
                        You have to take into account that those recommendations are almost 25 years old now. We have moved on. While the new dpm uniforms were a massive leap forward in terms of materials, etc. the smock as it is now is an obsolete item in terms of functionality. Use of CBA and IPLCS has made easy use of most of its pockets impractical if not impossible. Military clothing has moved on to much more form fitting, functional movement designs. Close fitting wicking base layers, UBACS, even combat trousers are designed with higher waist / lumbar coverage to address ride up, etc. Moving to plate carriers / load carrying body armour will only re-enforce the need for slimmer, integrated clothing underneath.

                        Losing the drop liners from the combat trousers was probably a worse move and would have solved the wet bum issues (which has been the only advantage mentioned here so far). A cut off of kip mat that can be pulled out of a pocket or pouch also solves wet bums when sitting on cold / wet ground for periods.
                        An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

                        Comment


                        • I agree that the new Jackets have been and are designed to work better with CBA. But they should have left the length alone and kept the integrated hood.If the hood is detachable you will leave it behind and when you really need it you won't have it.

                          Soldiers 25 years ago had the same physiology as today.Cold is cold and smocks were supposed to be loose fitting to allow for layers to be worn underneath.The new Jackets are tighter and darted to have a more tailored Parade ground look. If parades are the driving factor wear the SD's!! You will struggle to wear multiple layers under the new yokes unless you get the right size and in typical DF fashion we have introduced a new item with zero guidance to the troops to let them know this. Also there is no joined up thinking. We are about to introduce velcro backed subdued unit flashes for day to day use with no place to attach them on the new Jacket.

                          Why do we keep on doing these things???
                          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by apod View Post
                            Soldiers 25 years ago had the same physiology as today.Cold is cold
                            Unless your RDF
                            We don’t get cold for the first 71 hours and admin personnel don’t get cold at all. We don’t get hot under CBA either

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                            • the smock as it is now is an obsolete item in terms of functionality
                              I am sorry I have to disagree as someone who's walked out on the square on a baltic Winter night for 34 years this is senseless . I still have my first issue smock as field smock and I treasure that sitting pad thats in it which is still one of the biggest leaps forward in technology the Army ever made .
                              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                                I am sorry I have to disagree as someone who's walked out on the square on a baltic Winter night for 34 years this is senseless . I still have my first issue smock as field smock and I treasure that sitting pad thats in it which is still one of the biggest leaps forward in technology the Army ever made .
                                But yet we have all been issued the much more functional smart Westlife jacket which is much more suitable for that

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