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Thread: Soldier 2017

  1. #476
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    These new Jackets(That's what they are) are a retrograde move and go completely against all the recommendations that the ARW Special study group made back in '96 that led to the introduction of the smock in the first place! We are re-inventing the wheel.
    You have to take into account that those recommendations are almost 25 years old now. We have moved on. While the new dpm uniforms were a massive leap forward in terms of materials, etc. the smock as it is now is an obsolete item in terms of functionality. Use of CBA and IPLCS has made easy use of most of its pockets impractical if not impossible. Military clothing has moved on to much more form fitting, functional movement designs. Close fitting wicking base layers, UBACS, even combat trousers are designed with higher waist / lumbar coverage to address ride up, etc. Moving to plate carriers / load carrying body armour will only re-enforce the need for slimmer, integrated clothing underneath.

    Losing the drop liners from the combat trousers was probably a worse move and would have solved the wet bum issues (which has been the only advantage mentioned here so far). A cut off of kip mat that can be pulled out of a pocket or pouch also solves wet bums when sitting on cold / wet ground for periods.
    Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

    And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

  2. #477
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    I agree that the new Jackets have been and are designed to work better with CBA. But they should have left the length alone and kept the integrated hood.If the hood is detachable you will leave it behind and when you really need it you won't have it.

    Soldiers 25 years ago had the same physiology as today.Cold is cold and smocks were supposed to be loose fitting to allow for layers to be worn underneath.The new Jackets are tighter and darted to have a more tailored Parade ground look. If parades are the driving factor wear the SD's!! You will struggle to wear multiple layers under the new yokes unless you get the right size and in typical DF fashion we have introduced a new item with zero guidance to the troops to let them know this. Also there is no joined up thinking. We are about to introduce velcro backed subdued unit flashes for day to day use with no place to attach them on the new Jacket.

    Why do we keep on doing these things???
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  4. #478
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Soldiers 25 years ago had the same physiology as today.Cold is cold
    Unless your RDF
    We don’t get cold for the first 71 hours and admin personnel don’t get cold at all. We don’t get hot under CBA either


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  6. #479
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    the smock as it is now is an obsolete item in terms of functionality
    I am sorry I have to disagree as someone who's walked out on the square on a baltic Winter night for 34 years this is senseless . I still have my first issue smock as field smock and I treasure that sitting pad thats in it which is still one of the biggest leaps forward in technology the Army ever made .
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  8. #480
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    I am sorry I have to disagree as someone who's walked out on the square on a baltic Winter night for 34 years this is senseless . I still have my first issue smock as field smock and I treasure that sitting pad thats in it which is still one of the biggest leaps forward in technology the Army ever made .
    But yet we have all been issued the much more functional smart Westlife jacket which is much more suitable for that

  9. #481
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    You need the sarcasm tags. I pay particular attention to not wearing that jacket as it is not authorized for RDF wear .
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  11. #482
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    You need the sarcasm tags. I pay particular attention to not wearing that jacket as it is not authorized for RDF wear .
    Of course that's a whole different topic.What does and does not constitute a modern practical scale of issue to the Army Reserve. Not sure they need every item that a PDF recruit gets but it 100% needs updating.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  13. #483
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    If parades are the driving factor wear the SD's!!
    You will struggle to wear multiple layers under the new yokes unless you get the right size and in typical DF fashion we have introduced a new item with zero guidance to the troops to let them know this.
    Also there is no joined up thinking. We are about to introduce velcro backed subdued unit flashes for day to day use with no place to attach them on the new Jacket.

    Why do we keep on doing these things???
    Unfortunately Apod, all of what you say here is:
    1. Nothing new in the history of the army.
    2. A reflection of poor management / logistics / proper scales of issue, etc.
    3. There has always been a hierarchy in army more concerned with parade appearance and consequently have restricted the ability to develope sound operational / tactical guidelines for clothing, kit, etc.

    I've seen more good pieces of kit, both in the DF and outside, be rubbished by personnel because they didn't get proper sizes, usage instructions, explanations how / why new kit is a benefit, etc. And then the Irish solution is to bastardise it to address the problems, which inevitably ruins the kit regardless.
    Last edited by X-RayOne; 9th February 2020 at 17:10.
    Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

    And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

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  15. #484
    Retired sapper smegers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    But yet we have all been issued the much more functional smart Westlife jacket which is much more suitable for that
    I prefer to call it the smug pak.
    Last edited by smegers; 9th February 2020 at 16:04.

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  17. #485
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegers View Post
    I prefer to call it the smug pak.
    The sarcastic bit was that we had all been issued it.

    The Westlife jacket is the barracks jacket which is much suited to relatively smart wear around Barracks compared to a smock

    The Snugpak isn’t for outer wear.

  18. #486
    Retired sapper smegers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The sarcastic bit was that we had all been issued it.

    The Westlife jacket is the barracks jacket which is much suited to relatively smart wear around Barracks compared to a smock

    The Snugpak isn’t for outer wear.
    Yes I know, which is why i called it the smug pak.

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  20. #487
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    Unfortunately Apod, all of what you say here is:
    1. Nothing new in the history of the army.
    2. A reflection of poor management / logistics / proper scales of issue, etc.
    3. There has always been a hierarchy in army more concerned with parade appearance and consequently have restricted the ability to develope sound operational / tactical guidelines for clothing, kit, etc.

    I've seen more good pieces of kit, both in the DF and outside, be rubbished by personnel because they didn't get proper sizes, usage instructions, explanations how / why new kit is a benefit, etc. And then the Irish solution is to bastardise it to address the problems, which inevitably ruins the kit regardless.
    And what do we do about it?? Nothing. There are feedback forms on the IKON. Nobody uses them. There is a discussion forum on the IKON and you use that at your peril! The DF doesn't DO feedback well.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  22. #488
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    I genuinely remember doing tactics in SD1 up the side of Kilbride. Sure its Fado fado but it happened. We've come a long way since then this is a step back in my view. In my head I did actually think it back to see if a shorter smock might be better but there was nothing to call it a world beater.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  23. #489
    BQMS spider pig's Avatar
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    Amen to that. I have given up on feedback because most people don’t want to hear what you think and you end up getting your head bitten off
    Sir I cant find my peltors........Private they are on your face

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