Originally posted by Charlie252
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Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View PostThe thing about converting Airbus A320s to freighters has been going on since God was a dog. What has happened,in effect,is that older,larger freighters do the bulk of freight work and ATRs and sundry turboprops do the rest. In that airframe size,B737s dominate the market and right now, it's worth more to scrap an A320 than convert it. They are even talking of scrapping A380s and even A320s as young as 10 years old have been scrapped........
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Originally posted by Charlie252 View PostWhat have A320's and P2F conversions have to do with CASA replacement
Maybe that "3rd" CASA people speculated on because it could swing roles was not considered because as the CASA is a light-medium intra theatre tactical transport may have deemed as unsuited as an air mobility platform in the Irish context, which like RNZAF sized deployments needs to airlift tactical loads - strategic distances.
That the 3rd CASA might be something else, like mmm let's see ..... a A320-200 type of aircraft .....Last edited by Anzac; 17 December 2019, 08:34.
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Remember,ifyou use a 320 or a 737,you still need pallet lifters and conveyor belts and refitted roller floors. So,you or somebody else needs to have them in place downrange. Adding the extra fuel tank is not always operationally useful,as it itself and it's associated piping weighs about a ton, so its a trade off........I suspect that the new Casas will rarely,if ever, have the mission kit removed on a casual basis. Allegedly,the third PC-12 may or may not be a fully kitted out surveillance aircraft, but will be a plain vanilla airframe,depending on how well the first two get on.
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Originally posted by Anzac View PostThe possibility that the IAC may refrain from trying to merge a potential airlift capability with a maritime patrol capability on a single platform that may well compromise the effectiveness of one or both capabilities.
Maybe that "3rd" CASA people speculated on because it could swing roles was not considered because as the CASA is a light-medium intra theatre tactical transport may have deemed as unsuited as an air mobility platform in the Irish context, which like RNZAF sized deployments needs to airlift tactical loads - strategic distances.
That the 3rd CASA might be something else, like mmm let's see ..... a A320-200 type of aircraft .....
It is strange that despite the announcement, we have no detail of clarity as to what spec and support package is included in the declared contact value, by any standards 220Mill of two C-295's in a basic Fish Pat spec is high, particularly when we already have two SETS of FITS with two modern radars and FLIR systems on hand.
Very disappointed that no statement about a third or more airframes was made.
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Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post, but will be a plain vanilla airframe,depending on how well the first two get on.
As for talk of an airbus strategic airlift aircraft. Not in a million years.
For a start you would have techs and pilots walking out the door with tech and type ratings and no one will sign an undertaking for said ratings.
In addition, there will never be a single role aircraft in the inventory again. Any aircraft has to do several roles, even if that is the detriment to said roles.
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Originally posted by Charlie252 View PostIt is strange that despite the announcement, we have no detail of clarity as to what spec and support package is included in the declared contact value, by any standards 220Mill of two C-295's in a basic Fish Pat spec is high, particularly when we already have two SETS of FITS with two modern radars and FLIR systems on hand.
Very disappointed that no statement about a third or more airframes was made.
Location of mission equipment will be different to 235s to take advantage of the longer cabin and negate the need for removal/reinstallation of said equipment when changing roles.Last edited by Chuck; 17 December 2019, 19:59.
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While announcing our order Airbus also announced the Czech order of 2 C295 in a transport configuration for €102m, so at least we know what one would cost. Although I take it that this order also includes a large support package and even offsets (always make the price higher).
Last year the Italians ordered an ATR72MP which is has a similar role (except the transport part) as the C295MPA, they paid €44m in a deal that included training and logistics support. The list price for the civil version being €26m. It would interesting to know why the C295 is double the price? Remember both aircraft have the same engine the PW P127 and the engines make up a large part of the cost.
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In the RFP it is a system that is requested no mention of a number of aircraft or that they have to be the same: Taking due regard to the requirement to conduct multiple roles with an annual fleet output of up to three thousand (3000) hours, Respondents’ proposals can include single aircraft type or multi-variants of a single-aircraft-type solutions.
Given that the annual combined total for the CASA & Cessna fleet was under 900hours for both 2017 & 2018 on Maritime Patrol that leaves a lot of hours for transport functions. Does this mean that we will get a couple of C-295W transporters?
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostWhile announcing our order Airbus also announced the Czech order of 2 C295 in a transport configuration for €102m, so at least we know what one would cost. Although I take it that this order also includes a large support package and even offsets (always make the price higher).
Last year the Italians ordered an ATR72MP which is has a similar role (except the transport part) as the C295MPA, they paid €44m in a deal that included training and logistics support. The list price for the civil version being €26m. It would interesting to know why the C295 is double the price? Remember both aircraft have the same engine the PW P127 and the engines make up a large part of the cost.
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostIn the RFP it is a system that is requested no mention of a number of aircraft or that they have to be the same: Taking due regard to the requirement to conduct multiple roles with an annual fleet output of up to three thousand (3000) hours, Respondents’ proposals can include single aircraft type or multi-variants of a single-aircraft-type solutions.
Given that the annual combined total for the CASA & Cessna fleet was under 900hours for both 2017 & 2018 on Maritime Patrol that leaves a lot of hours for transport functions. Does this mean that we will get a couple of C-295W transporters?
CASA maritime patrols - 1382 hrs
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Originally posted by Sparky42 View PostThe Czech order also includes upgrading the existing fleet of 295's to the current spec, wonder if that might have played a role in the costs?
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