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  • Quick Question GTCC, without its usual hardware in the back, is the ramp and hold big enough to fit a cargo hold "can"?
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • Pilatus PC-12 NG ??????????

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      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
        Quick Question GTCC, without its usual hardware in the back, is the ramp and hold big enough to fit a cargo hold "can"?
        It can take an 88 x 108 inch flat pallet, assuming you fit a roller floor. I'd imagine it can take some of the smaller "bins" that would fit an ATR or similar. Some of those bins are sized for 737 or A320 widths and can be carried in double rows on an A330. Some of them are custom made for specific aircraft. Incidentally, the roller floor and controls robs some of the weight and height but you'd take six tonnes, give or take, as max load. It's a very useful weight, when you think of moving six tonnes in a hurry. You can also configure them for half and half, which is a combined pax/cargo set up. The ordinary floor uses the standard seat rails as cargo tie down points so it's easy and quick to take seat rows out and refit for manually loaded cargo. It's also easy and quick to rig for parachuting (static line cables clip on in a matter of minutes). I've done both and it's genuinely a quick job that could be done during a turnaround. That's the beauty of it. I'd have to hand it to Casa on that front. The utility is well sorted. They made a few mistakes on the MPAs that bit the Air Corps, but those are long sorted so it'd be a no-brainer to keep them.

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        • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
          Anything that could be perceived as a large government jet would be deeply unpopular and politically risky. Rightly or wrongly.
          The inverse now applies downunder in NZ - it did not used to be that way. If our Boeings were sold, and the NZ government bought two executive jets for politicians to jolly around like "rock stars and billionaires" - now that would be deeply unpopular. Not that long ago that may have happened, culling the P-3's was a distinct possibility, the public and politicians really didn't care if it happened or not.

          So what is different? Something that is not often recognised or even mentioned on defence forums / discussions, but an increasingly important aspect of the corporate culture of a modern defence force in this day and age. Public Relations.

          Downunder the majority of public now understand and have been deliberately messaged over the past few years that their defence force is an extension and enabler of "NZ Inc's" soft power in terms of trade and diplomacy and one of the key avenues for that is involvement in HADR ops - the NZDF even has a marketing campaign slogan "A Force for Good". The public here have no brook at all with the NZDF flying off to anywhere in the Asia-Pacific on a HADR mission with medical supplies, food, ect - or an Antartica science mission is support of "climate change" - they lap it up or at worst are fairly neutral. However, a politician flying on NZDF aircraft other than the PM internationally is now unheard of - the media will cook up a storm as a case of politicians misusing an important national asset - MATS is virtually a dead duck now.

          Is it that the Irish Defence Force are great at what they do but useless at communicating that greatness to the public which completely undermines the value of what they do to the nation state and their ability to get both public and political support for the required tools to do their job?

          A significant element in what the NZDF (and even better at it are the ADF who taught us this rat cunning comms approach) do these days is communicating to Joe and Jane Public and Jack and Jill Politician what they do and why they do it. An open invitation into the media, hugely active on social media, constant engagement with the community. In 10 years they have gone from near the bottom of the public service trust rankings to near the top.

          The only thing the NZDF changed is the Comms / PR strategy - doctrine is the same - yet the NZDF is in better shape and becoming better equipped. Using outfits like Clemenger BBDO to shape their messaging, having famous sportsman and celebrities train alongside or just hang out with the troops.

          A charm offensive or "Hearts and Minds" by a Defence Force is not just applicable during a SASO mission in East Timor or Mali but institutionally just as important for political and fiscal survival at home in this day and age.

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          • The Air Corps has used the Casa in another transport tasking, this time to rotate personnel from the KFOR mission.

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            • Originally posted by pilatus View Post
              The Air Corps has used the Casa in another transport tasking, this time to rotate personnel from the KFOR mission.

              https://twitter.com/IrishAirCorps/st...734510080?s=19
              Good stuff lads! Keep up the PR. Change the public perception. Get them onboard for a bigger better stand alone air mobility capability!

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              • The Defence forces PR team must have read your post Anzac, they just posted this on their Instagram account. Perhaps they are trying to build their case for why they need to retain the cn235's or as you say develop the capability further.
                Last edited by pilatus; 23 April 2020, 13:12.

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                • Another way to keep the Casas would be to sub them out to a third party,like the garda helis, so that they are maintained 24/7/365 by civvies, flown by Donners, housed in the Don, with load supervisors supplied by the Don (and trained in the art by any civilian airline you care to name). That way, there's no issue with storemen or AC mechs or AC ATC throwing a strop or pulling a union meeting or not being able to do full 24/7/365 work, because shifts don't get paid OT in the DF. If you wanted to, you could position them to any regional airport on the island in an hour (even Weston) if there was an issue with parking......Ive been saying it since King Air days. The Casas are a walking advertisement for cheap, on-hand airlift and utility functions, that would be a valuable asset to the AC, the DF in general and the State as a whole.

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                  • Originally posted by pilatus View Post
                    [ATTACH]8773[/ATTACH]

                    The Defence forces PR team must have read your post Anzac, they just posted this on their Instagram account. Perhaps they are trying to build their case for why they need to retain the cn235's or as you say develop the capability further.
                    Linky no worky.
                    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                    • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                      Another way to keep the Casas would be to sub them out to a third party,like the garda helis, so that they are maintained 24/7/365 by civvies, flown by Donners, housed in the Don, with load supervisors supplied by the Don (and trained in the art by any civilian airline you care to name). That way, there's no issue with storemen or AC mechs or AC ATC throwing a strop or pulling a union meeting or not being able to do full 24/7/365 work, because shifts don't get paid OT in the DF. If you wanted to, you could position them to any regional airport on the island in an hour (even Weston) if there was an issue with parking......Ive been saying it since King Air days. The Casas are a walking advertisement for cheap, on-hand airlift and utility functions, that would be a valuable asset to the AC, the DF in general and the State as a whole.
                      Nothing to stop civvies striking

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                      • In my experience, civvie contractors rarely, if ever, strike, whereas some of the inhouse version were very prone to play the union card and you got on their wrong side at your peril. I had one civvy storeman bring his union rep into the room when I was talking with a Lt-Col and he overruled the Officer on the subject of issue of tools. The Officer knew full well that if he insisted on me getting the tools, the storeman would have closed the place down. Another Storeman, when asked if he would bring spares to the hangar, as part of a reorganisation of Stores, refused point blank and threatened a strike. The hangar in question was Maritime, 20 feet from the Stores. I'll tell you, it was a serious breath of fresh air to move to an airline where storemen routinely delivered parts to the actual aircraft and apologised when they were unable to do so. Good storemen are worth their weight in gold,bad ones are a menace to the operation.

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                        • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                          In my experience, civvie contractors rarely, if ever, strike, whereas some of the inhouse version were very prone to play the union card and you got on their wrong side at your peril. I had one civvy storeman bring his union rep into the room when I was talking with a Lt-Col and he overruled the Officer on the subject of issue of tools. The Officer knew full well that if he insisted on me getting the tools, the storeman would have closed the place down. Another Storeman, when asked if he would bring spares to the hangar, as part of a reorganisation of Stores, refused point blank and threatened a strike. The hangar in question was Maritime, 20 feet from the Stores. I'll tell you, it was a serious breath of fresh air to move to an airline where storemen routinely delivered parts to the actual aircraft and apologised when they were unable to do so. Good storemen are worth their weight in gold,bad ones are a menace to the operation.
                          So civvies within military environment are an issued

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                          • Yes and no. Like all things associated with two differing work systems/mentalities, there will be days when everything runs smoothly and days when everything turns to shit. My experience of "good" civvies in the military is that they are more open to differing approaches to problem solving and will often bring a fresh approach to the table, whereas "bad" civvies are like the aforementioned storemen. Of course, there are "good" and "bad" military personnel, too. I had plenty of occasions when helpful people of all ranks stepped out from behind or under their pips and stripes, to get things done and equally, plenty of times when people hid behind their rank or the regulations to avoid work or simply to avoid giving a hand or speeding things up. Militaries are often too bound up by tradition/regulations/rank/red tape/closed mentalities and shoot themselves in the foot. That doesnt mean that civvies aren't capable of doing the same but, generally, a civvy will be more flexible and will try and get things done. Civilian organisations tend to try and pare away the old practises that waste time and money, as a matter of course, whereas militaries will perpetuate stupid shite because no-one says stop.

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                            • While ours may be some time off the Canadians are getting theirs:
                              https://twitter.com/CanadianForces/s...328512/photo/1

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                              • Stick a MAD on the ramp

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