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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    I thought the ATRs where Leonardo, so it would be the C27 for the ramp.
    And since the purse holders want multi role aircraft, they are not going to sign off on two types of aircraft when they can get one that does both jobs.
    ATR is a joint venture of Airbus and Leonardo: both of which have ramp equipped aircraft. Is meant to be a 50:50 partnership but HQ in France, so.......

  2. #202
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    Saw the P72 out and about around Naas on Tuesday and Wednesday... definitely a bit too low for the Stobart Air ones to be flying at... Seems to have a great equipment fit, with a super cool searchlight. Thanks to N7777G on boards.ie for posting some pics

    * https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...p?t=2057991471

    Unless there's a move to acquire something bigger for the transport task, which is pretty well defined in the spec for this replacement, it would sound like we'll only be getting one aircraft type. C295 or C27 would seem to be it really, and although there is an MC27 special missions aircraft (not sure what stage it's at), looks like the CASA has it really. For the annoraks, there was a mooted ATR 52C in the 1990s with a cargo ramp, but nothing came of it as far as I'm aware

    * https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightP...20-%200265.PDF

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  4. #203
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    An article from 2015 on a French aviation blog on CASA ops, entirely the authors own thoughts I'd say, but a good Friday afternoon read

    https://translate.google.com/transla...2Fpage%2F10%2F

  5. #204
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    You'd wonder why ATR feel confident about stepping into Casa's well established MPA territory.

  6. #205
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    At a guess, I'd say the optics of the ATR beating the 295 in a country that's operated the 235 for 25 years or so, would be of note to other potential customers.

    But they would have to make it a hell of a deal.

    I note that they've installed a side door that can open in mid air to drop rafts, flares etc. Not sure if it's viable for para ops.

  7. #206
    C/S CTU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    At a guess, I'd say the optics of the ATR beating the 295 in a country that's operated the 235 for 25 years or so, would be of note to other potential customers.

    But they would have to make it a hell of a deal.

    I note that they've installed a side door that can open in mid air to drop rafts, flares etc. Not sure if it's viable for para ops.
    Buy 2, get a C27 free?
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  9. #207
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    The ATR does have a number of advantages: a) due to the large number of civilian versions sold the unit cost of the airframe is low, b) the ATR72 as used by Italy in a MPA role has a much larger cabin c) higher cruise speed. However it lacks the flexibility of the C-295 ramp which allows easier cargo handling.

    But the visit may not have been for the airframe but for the mission systems fitted to the aircraft. Leonardo have being trying to sell the MC-27J as a MPA aircraft but I have not yet seen one fitted with a full MPA mission system. Showing an ATR MPA with the same system would make sense as we already know the FITS that would come with a C-295, unless of course we follow form and go for something totally bespoked!!!

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  11. #208
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    https://twitter.com/donlav/status/11...420878856?s=21

    DoD have selected preferred bidder (not revealed)

    Don Lavery says it is C295

  12. #209
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    Don has great connections and though retired, rarely gets it wrong.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  14. #210
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    Wonder how long the time before delivery?

  15. #211
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    This is the RFP stage, hasn’t gone to RFT (stage 2) yet afaik

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  17. #212
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    When an individual or a party orders an aircraft, they are essentially buying a slot on the production line. After all the handshakes and photographs are done, the manufacturer and the buyer get down to the serious business of actually specifying the genuine fit out (sometimes, the RFP is a bit of educated guesswork) and the real world cost of buying a low-volume run of two or three aircraft. You don't get the production slot unless you have put down at least 10 or 20 % to confirm the order and they won't cut metal until more money is placed in a secure account, to prove that you are serious about buying the aircraft. Some of the haggling that goes on for aircraft sales wouldn't be unfamiliar to a horse dealer at Ballinasloe Fair. Production slots are also traded (kind of like millionaires buying and selling unbuilt Ferraris) and it's not unknown for a manufacturer to shunt a smaller buyer to the back of the queue to satisfy a larger deal for a bigger customer. So, the Casa you get on Day 1 may not be exactly what you ordered and really wanted by the aircrew and mechs, but it may have to do until the Mk 2 or 3 clears testing and actually flies and gets delivered. It's very interesting when you get behind the facade of glamourous photo ops and advertising brochures to see what really goes on.

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  19. #213
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    The UK swapped production slots of the F-35 with Israel - they wanted airframes asap, we didn't need them at that point because a) we were inbedded in the US testing programme and were getting crew training for free, and b) the carrier's weren't ready to take them. Both sides happy...

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  21. #214
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Contracted signed for 2 x C295

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  23. #215
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  24. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Doesn't 220 mill for 2 seem a bit much?

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  26. #217
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    Depends on the sensor fit, fact it is removable (could include air ambulance pallets, airline type seating pallets), PBH contract, options for more aircraft, etc etc

  27. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
    Doesn't 220 mill for 2 seem a bit much?
    Yes if it is the flyaway cost.
    However often the headline cost is the project cost and includes training, spares, upgrades, service etc, etc. This additions can bring the cost to double the flyaway cost.

  28. #219
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    And it includes VAT

  29. #220
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    It's probably a full service package for 20 years; every C-check, every upgrade, every repaint,etc,etc. Essentially, all the AC will have to do is turn up and fly it. About 60 million accounts for the two aircraft, just as standard turboprops, but no-one pays brochure price for aircraft, so the bulk of what's paid is for the services, the avionic upgrades, training,etc.

  30. #221
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    A few more reports on this:
    https://aviationweek.com/awindefense...ime-patrollers
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...es-970329.html

    The project will be part-funded by the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund Operational Programme, co-funded by the Government and the European Union.
    So I wonder what's the break down between the Irish contribution and the EU one?

  31. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    https://twitter.com/donlav/status/11...420878856?s=21

    DoD have selected preferred bidder (not revealed)

    Don Lavery says it is C295
    Don was bang on
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  32. #223
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    Two Airframes, was the option for a third quietly dropped?

  33. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Don was bang on
    To be fair, wasn't the going view that it was going to be the 295 for quite sometime?

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  35. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Don was bang on
    Christ almighty.

    Anyone who was within about 5 degrees of separation of anyone who worked in the AC knew the end result quite some time ago. Don has hit the jackpot and found himself someone who can't hold their piss and now it's an "exclusive". Give me a break.

    Any word from Don on those 100 SCAR rifles that were procured and in use by the DF in Mali?

    No? I didn't think so.

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