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  • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
    Fixed it for you
    It looks like Pilatus might still have the second PC-12 still available.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...D3JH1o.twitter

      Great to see it. Imagine if we had a 200 seater....
      Any tactical transported that allows the C-295 to concentrate on their MPA missions.

      Although there are a few overseas missions were the PC-12 could handle the rotation something bigger is definitely required if we are to have an independent capability.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
        It looks like Pilatus might still have the second PC-12 still available.
        Time to convince somebody in a suit that two are needed because of social distancing, as only one minister/civil servant can be carried at a time...
        'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
        'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
        Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
        He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
        http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
          Time to convince somebody in a suit that two are needed because of social distancing, as only one minister/civil servant can be carried at a time...
          Or Leo needs one if Micheál is using the current one? But seriously given how much the first one is already doing if Pilatus still have it why not go for it?

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          • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
            Or Leo needs one if Micheál is using the current one? But seriously given how much the first one is already doing if Pilatus still have it why not go for it?
            To be fair if anyone minister needs a MATS aircraft it is Simon, and one of his departments is responsible!

            Why don't we go for it? Because someone at the AC says we do not have space for it.

            The requirement for the second should be based upon a military need, MATS and ATCA can all be part of the justification but the military need should be first and foremost. So the need for one could be demonstrated but why the need for the second? It need not be difficult; "one is none". As we are "militarily neutral" we do not have an organisation we can call upon to provide the function when our aircraft is "out of service". Therefore it we want to have this capability there needs to be back-up, this is almost universal.

            Take the example of the CG helicopters, not only do each base provide back-up to each other but CHC has available a 5 helicopter to cover the planned down-time of the active fleet. This principle is not limited to organisations but also the equipment itself where it is called redundancy. If we always want to be able to have the capability to quickly move small numbers of troops then the second aircraft is vital.

            Comment


            • Is there now the position where someone will dig their heels in and keep saying no so as not to look foolish?
              'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
              'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
              Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
              He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
              http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

              Comment


              • The New criteria is we do now not know when 281, 282 and 283 are due to be delivered, and there is an urgent need to fulfil the many roles that the C172 used to do before they were retired (on the presumption that the PC12 would be replacing them months, not years later). Combined with the fact the Only other transport aircraft available for anything is away for maintenance.
                The Sooner we get away from the idea that Maritime patrol aircraft can be used for transport the better.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                  ...and there is an urgent need to fulfil the many roles that the C172 used to do before they were retired...
                  Urgent need? Really?

                  Cessna's stopped doing Cash Escorts in 2014 which was 95% of their work.

                  As a result of that cessation they were shoehorned into doing inshore fishery patrols supplemented by the very occasional escort (non cash) and bog survey.

                  PC--12 wont be doing bog surveys anytime soon. The NPWS can rent something appropriate from Weston.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                    The New criteria is we do now not know when 281, 282 and 283 are due to be delivered, and there is an urgent need to fulfil the many roles that the C172 used to do before they were retired (on the presumption that the PC12 would be replacing them months, not years later). Combined with the fact the Only other transport aircraft available for anything is away for maintenance.
                    I would shy away from the "late delivery" as a lease could be the solution that fills that need. But there are potentially two other urgent needs, (a) wave two preparation and (b) Brexit border surveillance. One of the lessons we should have learnt from the first wave of Covid-19 is that the PC-12 was able to provide good service with transport of test etc.

                    As it looks increasingly likely (unless Boris does a U-turn) that we are heading for a hard Brexit. As building a 500km, 20m high wall with a moat filled with crocs is not on the cards it is likely that the surveillance of both the land and sea borders will need to be increases. While the Spectre are best equipped for this the deterrent effect of a PC-12 flying along the border should not be underestimated. From the ground no-one can easily tell the difference between a PC-12 Spectre and a ordinary PC-12 in the same colours.

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                    • The Cessnas were doing fish and bird surveys back in the 80s.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                        Is there now the position where someone will dig their heels in and keep saying no so as not to look foolish?
                        Hopefully foolish followed him out the side door

                        Comment


                        • Some nice pics of our birds the birds on holiday in the US, can't wait for the 3 ship line-up

                          N280NG
                          https://skippyscage.com/aviation/med...0NG&col=serial

                          N281NG
                          https://skippyscage.com/aviation/med...1NG&col=serialy

                          N282NG
                          https://skippyscage.com/aviation/med...2NG&col=serial

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                          • Still no paint scheme?
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • Will they still have the 'new car smell' when they arrive .
                              Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                Still no paint scheme?
                                The "new" 280 still needs one too.I hate the white and red.Totally un-military.
                                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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