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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Fixed it for you
    It looks like Pilatus might still have the second PC-12 still available.

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  3. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...D3JH1o.twitter

    Great to see it. Imagine if we had a 200 seater....
    Any tactical transported that allows the C-295 to concentrate on their MPA missions.

    Although there are a few overseas missions were the PC-12 could handle the rotation something bigger is definitely required if we are to have an independent capability.

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  5. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    It looks like Pilatus might still have the second PC-12 still available.
    Time to convince somebody in a suit that two are needed because of social distancing, as only one minister/civil servant can be carried at a time...
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  7. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Time to convince somebody in a suit that two are needed because of social distancing, as only one minister/civil servant can be carried at a time...
    Or Leo needs one if Micheál is using the current one? But seriously given how much the first one is already doing if Pilatus still have it why not go for it?

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  9. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Or Leo needs one if Micheál is using the current one? But seriously given how much the first one is already doing if Pilatus still have it why not go for it?
    To be fair if anyone minister needs a MATS aircraft it is Simon, and one of his departments is responsible!

    Why don't we go for it? Because someone at the AC says we do not have space for it.

    The requirement for the second should be based upon a military need, MATS and ATCA can all be part of the justification but the military need should be first and foremost. So the need for one could be demonstrated but why the need for the second? It need not be difficult; "one is none". As we are "militarily neutral" we do not have an organisation we can call upon to provide the function when our aircraft is "out of service". Therefore it we want to have this capability there needs to be back-up, this is almost universal.

    Take the example of the CG helicopters, not only do each base provide back-up to each other but CHC has available a 5 helicopter to cover the planned down-time of the active fleet. This principle is not limited to organisations but also the equipment itself where it is called redundancy. If we always want to be able to have the capability to quickly move small numbers of troops then the second aircraft is vital.

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  11. #381
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    Is there now the position where someone will dig their heels in and keep saying no so as not to look foolish?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  13. #382
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    The New criteria is we do now not know when 281, 282 and 283 are due to be delivered, and there is an urgent need to fulfil the many roles that the C172 used to do before they were retired (on the presumption that the PC12 would be replacing them months, not years later). Combined with the fact the Only other transport aircraft available for anything is away for maintenance.
    The Sooner we get away from the idea that Maritime patrol aircraft can be used for transport the better.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  15. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    ...and there is an urgent need to fulfil the many roles that the C172 used to do before they were retired...
    Urgent need? Really?

    Cessna's stopped doing Cash Escorts in 2014 which was 95% of their work.

    As a result of that cessation they were shoehorned into doing inshore fishery patrols supplemented by the very occasional escort (non cash) and bog survey.

    PC--12 wont be doing bog surveys anytime soon. The NPWS can rent something appropriate from Weston.

  16. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    The New criteria is we do now not know when 281, 282 and 283 are due to be delivered, and there is an urgent need to fulfil the many roles that the C172 used to do before they were retired (on the presumption that the PC12 would be replacing them months, not years later). Combined with the fact the Only other transport aircraft available for anything is away for maintenance.
    I would shy away from the "late delivery" as a lease could be the solution that fills that need. But there are potentially two other urgent needs, (a) wave two preparation and (b) Brexit border surveillance. One of the lessons we should have learnt from the first wave of Covid-19 is that the PC-12 was able to provide good service with transport of test etc.

    As it looks increasingly likely (unless Boris does a U-turn) that we are heading for a hard Brexit. As building a 500km, 20m high wall with a moat filled with crocs is not on the cards it is likely that the surveillance of both the land and sea borders will need to be increases. While the Spectre are best equipped for this the deterrent effect of a PC-12 flying along the border should not be underestimated. From the ground no-one can easily tell the difference between a PC-12 Spectre and a ordinary PC-12 in the same colours.

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  18. #385
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    The Cessnas were doing fish and bird surveys back in the 80s.

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  20. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Is there now the position where someone will dig their heels in and keep saying no so as not to look foolish?
    Hopefully foolish followed him out the side door

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  22. #387
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    Some nice pics of our birds the birds on holiday in the US, can't wait for the 3 ship line-up

    N280NG
    https://skippyscage.com/aviation/med...0NG&col=serial

    N281NG
    https://skippyscage.com/aviation/med...1NG&col=serialy

    N282NG
    https://skippyscage.com/aviation/med...2NG&col=serial

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  24. #388
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    Still no paint scheme?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  25. #389
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    Will they still have the 'new car smell' when they arrive .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  27. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Still no paint scheme?
    The "new" 280 still needs one too.I hate the white and red.Totally un-military.
    "105,000 dead. 40,000,000 unemployed. Police murdering African-Americans. You’ve completed you’re mission. You’ve made America great. Now get the f**k out."

    - Rob Reiner.

    "Yes he's an idiot with zero common sense,and no social skills,but he IS my son.I just hope he never goes into politics.He'd be a disaster.

    - Mary Anne Trump

    #unfollowtrump

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  29. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    The "new" 280 still needs one too.I hate the white and red.Totally un-military.
    To be fair, for that one right now, the paint scheme must be low down on the list, I doubt it will get it until the other 3 are here.

  30. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    The "new" 280 still needs one too.I hate the white and red.Totally un-military.
    Given that the reason for buying it was for MATS, the current paint scheme is quite appropriate.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  31. #393
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    Aircraft are often supplied white because it's the cheapest paint scheme, especially when they "give" you a few stripes to liven it up. Beyond the most basic paint scheme,you have to pay a considerable amount for anything other than a standard scheme, which is why you get Ryanair type colours on fleets; one simple design with few variations. Paint shops make their living on add-ons like vinyl styling and fancy logos. When you consider that a basic job on an A320 is around EU 60K, that's a lot of money over a whole fleet. You can always tell the leased-in aircraft as they have the most basic colours, as it's easier to hand them back later without having made expensive changes to paint.

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  33. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Given that the reason for buying it was for MATS, the current paint scheme is quite appropriate.
    Didn't you get the memo, MATS has gone back to Military Air Transport Services.

    Apart from an tUachtarán, the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste, the only way an elected official will be on that plane is if they are a medical emergency. Given the current climate no minister is going to want to be seen flying around the place especially when we are all told to avoid travel.
    Last edited by EUFighter; 1st August 2020 at 09:35.

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  35. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    The "new" 280 still needs one too.I hate the white and red.Totally un-military.
    White and red makes it a Coast Guard version , slap on some battle ship grey and hey presto we have a Naval version .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  37. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Didn't you get the memo, MATS has gone back to Military Air Transport Services.

    Apart from an tUachtarán, the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste, the only way an elected official will be on that plane is if they are a medical emergency. Given the current climate no minister is going to want to be seen flying around the place especially when we are all told to avoid travel.
    Fair enough. I thought it was going to be used to get the Brexit negociating team and Forign Minister around as well. I'd have thought that the current scheme was perfectly ok given the proposed taskings. But I suppose it's not "corporate" with everything else.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  38. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Fair enough. I thought it was going to be used to get the Brexit negociating team and Forign Minister around as well. I'd have thought that the current scheme was perfectly ok given the proposed taskings. But I suppose it's not "corporate" with everything else.
    There is no Irish Brexit negotiation team, all negotiations are done by Michel Barnier and his team. He gives regular reports to the Commission, the Council and the Parliament.

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  40. #398
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    At the very least it should be a green and orange colour theme

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