Pilatus PC-12 NG

[meridian]

Just adding a link to an Indo story on 280 for perusal

* http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-39096158.html

[Charlie252]

How many hours does it normally take for fixed wing pilots to be type rated? I'm sure someone here knows.I imagine there is a big push to get as many current PC-9 and former Cessna172 pilots up to speed on this ASAP so they can hit the ground running when the other 3 arrive.

Depends on Background and experience level.

[DeV]

Still believe that the purchase of a number of used, low hour, civil AW139s would make more sense. Already have the pilots and technicians to handle them, or at least easily converted to them.

Well you never know, still early days to this. That being said, given the issues sustaining the medical flight, how many more 139's could we absorb and utilse?

Well with the current crisis in the country, I'm sure all qualified AW139 crew, even if they are now desk drivers in the IAC, could get back to flying very quickly, something that I would imagine does not apply in normal circumstances for the EMS.

Drastic times need drastic measures.

Back in 2019 there was Lt Col’s flying EAS in order to keep it operational plus it had to be taken out of service for a number of short periods

The purchase will definitely prove its worth during and long after the current crisis. Common sense would have dictated the purchase of a basic version alongside the sensor equipped versions from the beginning. I'm sure it will receive a more appropriate colour scheme and other military mods when time allows.

When you are looking for an aircraft at short notice that is available now and can be delivered immediately for which you have qualified flight crew and technicians and can go straight to work, well that limits your options. Couple that to the fact that securing a helicopter from an Italian manufacturer may be complicated at the present time and second hand purchases that differ from in service aircraft may complicate your supply chain and training, then this purchase makes sense

The 3 aircraft were multi-role (passenger, casevac, cargo, ISTAR capable). Hopefully this aircraft will become ISTAR capable in time but either way if not it will allow the AC to use it for training and save hours on the more capable aircraft.

How many hours does it normally take for fixed wing pilots to be type rated? I'm sure someone here knows.I imagine there is a big push to get as many current PC-9 and former Cessna172 pilots up to speed on this ASAP so they can hit the ground running when the other 3 arrive.

Somewhere around 8-10 hours plus ground school would be typical in the civilian sphere.

Was going to be a good few months to achieve initial operational capability

[na grohmiti]

At least now you'll have pilots to fly it while the talking freight get to learn the systems aboard.

[Turkey]

it's a good idea, it can do all those runabout jobs and keep the real ones for their work, hell, if sanity prevails they might led soldiers jump out of it, and if they are really nice they might let them take parachutes...

[EUFighter]

Coming back to fixed vs rotary; if we did want to buy then it is still very much a buyer's market. Back in 2018 Airbus sold 21 re-purposed H225s to Ukraine. They had been taken out of offshore service and refitted to a common military standard. The Don was always hot for the Puma, so maybe a few of its grandchild Cougar (H225) would sweeten the pill.

[na grohmiti]

Pilots.

[na grohmiti]

A quick video of the Short field performance of the PC-12.

[Jetjock]

Coming back to fixed vs rotary; if we did want to buy then it is still very much a buyer's market. Back in 2018 Airbus sold 21 re-purposed H225s to Ukraine. They had been taken out of offshore service and refitted to a common military standard. The Don was always hot for the Puma, so maybe a few of its grandchild Cougar (H225) would sweeten the pill.

The same H225s that nobody wanted and had lost the confidence of those expected to fly on them because they kept falling out of the sky?

[GoneToTheCanner]

The Puma morphed into something that was neither fish nor fowl; it got too powerful to land on smaller oil platforms and was a menace to soldiers on land with the downwash and allegedly, the tail rotor gearbox was never strong enough for more powerful engines. The Puma of the 80s was highly regarded because it was a very good combination of size and power versus lifting ability, could fit into fairly small hangars and was easy to keep operational in the field so it was no wonder that it truly sold like hot cakes. It would have been fantastic for the DF if we had a few. What was ironic was that when the Don pleaded for airlift like the Puma and always got refused, the same State had no problem funding Bell 212s for Irish Helicopters, then an arm of the State and occasionally, leasing in heavier iron for odd jobs.

[ropebag]

One of yours?

Attachment 8765

10.24 Weds 08 Apr

[na grohmiti]

The Puma morphed into something that was neither fish nor fowl; it got too powerful to land on smaller oil platforms and was a menace to soldiers on land with the downwash and allegedly, the tail rotor gearbox was never strong enough for more powerful engines. The Puma of the 80s was highly regarded because it was a very good combination of size and power versus lifting ability, could fit into fairly small hangars and was easy to keep operational in the field so it was no wonder that it truly sold like hot cakes. It would have been fantastic for the DF if we had a few. What was ironic was that when the Don pleaded for airlift like the Puma and always got refused, the same State had no problem funding Bell 212s for Irish Helicopters, then an arm of the State and occasionally, leasing in heavier iron for odd jobs.

Didn't IH have a passenger S61 for years just to crew the offshore rigs. A green painted version could have saved countless lives around our coast at the same time. Instead the govt was happy to leave yellow and grey ones from the UK do the job. Priorities.

[meridian]

One of yours?

Attachment 8765

10.24 Weds 08 Apr

Link no work :( Can you embed the image please? ????

[ropebag]

No idea how...

Anyway, while perusing ASDB Flight Tracker this morning I saw IRL280 Irish Air Corps flying over Oxfordshire at 22,000ft doing 180kts.

I assumed it was a CASA doing a patient transfer, but Google tells me that 280 is a PC-12 you've just bought....

[na grohmiti]

Yeah, they are fairly racking up the airmiles on that since delivery. Great to see.

[Tempest]

Maybe they can get in ahead of Aer Lingus and Ryanair when services resume and offer charter flights like this for cash !
More seriously, the video does have good footage of cockpit and cabin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4KvEUN1AI

[meridian]

No idea how...

Anyway, while perusing ASDB Flight Tracker this morning I saw IRL280 Irish Air Corps flying over Oxfordshire at 22,000ft doing 180kts.

I assumed it was a CASA doing a patient transfer, but Google tells me that 280 is a PC-12 you've just bought....

Sorry for the slow reply to your message above ropebag, thanks for the information. Think this message with the flightradar track on the PPRUNE board might have been what you were pointing too

* https://www.pprune.org/spectators-ba...58-irl280.html

Great to see the new bus out and about, have seen it around Kildare almost everyday this week. A Facebook post about the new aircraft from the Dutch Scramble spotters website, and nice pic of her on approach to Aldergrove a few days ago

* https://www.facebook.com/Scramblemag...33506116675897
* https://www.v1images.com/product/iri...tus-pc-12-280/

Safe flying, and remember to was your hands before and after use

[EUFighter]

An ex-Cityjet (donated) RJ85 arrived at Baldonnel today to be decommissioned and used for ground training

It might not be for fire fighting training but a new toy for the Beardies (I know we all have beards now) to practice aircraft hostage rescue situations. Or for the training of sniffer dogs either for drugs or explosives.

[DeV]

Maybe they should try to keep it airworthy for another four months just in case they need it to repatriate the troops from Syria and Lebanon in August (contingency in case the normal carrier's aircraft are still grounded). On a side note, I've always felt our lack of transport aircraft have left our overseas troops somewhat exposed.

Planes aren’t grounded (by authorities) there is no demand

UN has banned troop rotations for the time being

[Jetjock]

Maybe they should try to keep it airworthy for another four months just in case they need it to repatriate the troops from Syria and Lebanon in August (contingency in case the normal carrier's aircraft are still grounded). On a side note, I've always felt our lack of transport aircraft have left our overseas troops somewhat exposed.

Nice idea but unless you can pull type rated crew from somewhere at short notice you couldn't fly it. Unless you recruit type rated ex IAC crew on a part time first line reserve arrangement. Given the appointment of an examiner to CityJet yesterday they may soon be looking for work.

Without knowing the particular airframe, there may indeed be some life in it but the planned decommissioning over the next few weeks probably involves stripping every saleable non expired part.

[Anzac]

UN has banned troop rotations for the time being

The UN's C34 committee have requested countries to delay them for 3 months. Legally speaking the UN cannot "ban" a sovereign state from undertaking troop repatriation if it so decides - though it would be pretty irresponsible to withdraw troops at the moment.

[ias]

Planes aren’t grounded (by authorities) there is no demand

UN has banned troop rotations for the time being

That's why I said four months, however it could also be used to demonstrate a need to government.

Regarding crew, I was thinking along the lines of Jetjock's comment, there may be some Cityjet personnel (ex-IAC) willing to take temporary appointments.

[EUFighter]

For the next year it will be possible to get at short notice much more suitable and modern aircraft than the RJ series. Remember the RJ series does not have the legs needed to return troops from UNIFIL. There are plenty of A320/B373's available which could do the trip and if you want there will be a large number of wide body aircraft available. No need to get temporary appointments, no need to keep rating current etc.

As for the RJ series there were very few still flying before Covid-19 as the youngest still around is 20yrs so even the parts value is low.

[na grohmiti]

That's why I said four months, however it could also be used to demonstrate a need to government.

Regarding crew, I was thinking along the lines of Jetjock's comment, there may be some Cityjet personnel (ex-IAC) willing to take temporary appointments.

If we were going to take on hand an aircraft destined for hammond lane, and fly it to demonstrate a capability first, surely there are better surplus aircraft available? Early A319 or A320? Early version B737 Aer Lingus recently even retired its B757.
I personally always found the Avro RJ to be a piece of crap. A wide body airliner jammed into the fuselage of a narrow body commuter aircraft. Nobody is comfortable. Window seat has head jammed against the window cowl, aisle seat has only room for one elbow, if there happens to be an unfortunate sitting in the centre seat (who can only do so with arms folded). Take off and flight is an experience, as you watch the various cowls and trailing edges flutter their life away in flight. And cabin noise is something that I only slightly better than what I experienced in a AB212.

[EUFighter]

If we were going to take on hand an aircraft destined for hammond lane, and fly it to demonstrate a capability first, surely there are better surplus aircraft available? Early A319 or A320? Early version B737 Aer Lingus recently even retired its B757.
I personally always found the Avro RJ to be a piece of crap. A wide body airliner jammed into the fuselage of a narrow body commuter aircraft. Nobody is comfortable. Window seat has head jammed against the window cowl, aisle seat has only room for one elbow, if there happens to be an unfortunate sitting in the centre seat (who can only do so with arms folded). Take off and flight is an experience, as you watch the various cowls and trailing edges flutter their life away in flight. And cabin noise is something that I only slightly better than what I experienced in a AB212.

The BAe146/RJ was design as a 5-abreast aircraft (3-2) but a lot of airlines put 6 abreast into it and this was a tight squeeze.
The B757's that were used by Aer Lingus actually were owned by the lessor ASL Airlines. The last B757 they have which is now stored at Shannon is 26.9yrs old so ripe for scrapping.
There are plenty of 15-20yr old A321's stored at the moment, these have the range to easily do most missions we would require and if it is just for a demonstration then later a P2F conversion could be done to give a multi-role capability: everything on pallets- seats, medvac system or just cargo.