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  1. #51
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    BB.You do realise we already have a desert pattern.Don't you?
    And yes.It is only issued in small numbers and for certain missions.

    As for the scouts.Feedback I have heard hasn't been good.People saying it is grand for the Bks and when it's dry but not great in the wet.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  3. #52
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    MOD: Seriously folks.Keep to the topic.Discussion of uniform development should be over in the Soldier 2017 thread. I don't want to merge posts form this thread over to there as it would be messy so can we just stick to discussing the lunacy(IMHO) that is the Single boot concept.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  4. #53
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    Sorry APOD, re read my post and it did come off like I was saying we didn't have one. RE the boots, the people I had heard from were using them for hunting/hiking and the like. How come they're so poor in the wet? Do they not have Goretex or anything along those lines?

  5. #54
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorderBandit View Post
    Sorry APOD, re read my post and it did come off like I was saying we didn't have one. RE the boots, the people I had heard from were using them for hunting/hiking and the like. How come they're so poor in the wet? Do they not have Goretex or anything along those lines?
    They do have a ePTFE lining. from what i have been told the problem is the Nubuck used for the upper as opposed to smooth full grain leather.
    I have not been issued them myself ,and by all accounts it will be a while before I do but thats what is being said.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Something occurred to me when reading the post above. The MOU we signed with Britain... would this not cover situations like this, i. e. The British have done the legwork in terms of investigating boot upgrades, and instead of the British MOD ordering 200,000 pairs of cold temperate boots at unit cost X, they order 250,000 pairs at unit cost X, and the Irish DOD pick up the tab for the 50,000 pairs. Instead of the above situation where Irish taxpayers' hard earned moolah has been expended, reinventing the wheel. Just my 2c worth...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=3G_Gg6EB7oU

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  8. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    They do have a ePTFE lining. from what i have been told the problem is the Nubuck used for the upper as opposed to smooth full grain leather.
    I have not been issued them myself ,and by all accounts it will be a while before I do but thats what is being said.
    Its probably a case of the boots not being treated properly as well. Most personnel in the DF don't treat their operational boots properly - lash on the Kiwi, make em gleam and keep the major and the Lt Col Happy.

    Alas, this isn't great for breathability and impedes the membrane to work properly. Ideally something like nikwax or the supplied tube of cream that came with the boot should work, but this doesn't create a great shine.

    Just remember - theres nothing fundamentally wrong with nubuck and fabric combinations, its a compromise between strength, durability, price and weight and millions of pairs of similar boots are sold to hillwalkers every year. Ideally, the likes of nixwax nubuck and suede should be used for the purpose of treating said boots.

    The other thing I'd say is that we love to crib. I guarantee you if we'd gone for the Nebraska pro (would be my preferred choice if picking from the haix range) all you'd hear is "waaah, to heavy, my Achilles hurts, we need go faster salomons" etc.

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  10. #57
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    I have a pair of Lowa GTX mids and I can't fault them. Got some of the treatment cream for them and haven't had an issue. They have nubuck bits but with a bit of a brush and a quick lash of the treatment they're ready to go. I suspect what you say is true, northie.
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

  11. #58
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Its probably a case of the boots not being treated properly as well. Most personnel in the DF don't treat their operational boots properly - lash on the Kiwi, make em gleam and keep the major and the Lt Col Happy.
    I concur.

    Alas, this isn't great for breathability and impedes the membrane to work properly. Ideally something like nikwax or the supplied tube of cream that came with the boot should work, but this doesn't create a great shine.
    Nikwax or any wax based product is just as bad on GTX boots as normal polish.I remember the first pair of boots I bought.Meindl island Pros.The rep from River Deep Mountain high told us to use Nikwax. Ruined them. I have gone through many different pairs of boots until I found the one that worked best for me.Lowa Combats. Never used anything other than the Haix cream on them. Not a single issue. Lowa do a cream also but it is clear and does nothing to hide scuffs etc.
    The snag is that both products are speciality ones.Not readily available in most shops.Soldiers will use the cheapest,easiest to find stuff that keeps the BSM happy.So unless we have a supply of the Nubuck cleaner/conditioner available from stores the new boots are doomed from day one.
    Just remember - theres nothing fundamentally wrong with nubuck and fabric combinations, its a compromise between strength, durability, price and weight and millions of pairs of similar boots are sold to hillwalkers every year. Ideally, the likes of nixwax nubuck and suede should be used for the purpose of treating said boots.
    Hillwalkers.Not soldiers.
    The other thing I'd say is that we love to crib. I guarantee you if we'd gone for the Nebraska pro (would be my preferred choice if picking from the haix range) all you'd hear is "waaah, to heavy, my Achilles hurts, we need go faster salomons" etc.
    I would have gone for the Haix Nepals(aka the French army CdCCE boot). Slightly more expensive but a higher leg and Combat proven.

    We still haven't dealt with the elephant in the room though.One pair of boots that is supposed to do you for EVERYTHING??? Jesus.Even when all we had were the old 24B's you got two pairs of 'em!
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  13. #59
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Nubuck is good ..... until scuffed or covered in mud

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  15. #60
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Love to know how they are fairing up in the Leb.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  16. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Love to know how they are fairing up in the Leb.
    Not issued in the leb yet.

  17. #62
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northie View Post
    Not issued in the leb yet.
    Were they not sent out last month??
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  18. #63
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    We still haven't dealt with the elephant in the room though.One pair of boots that is supposed to do you for EVERYTHING??? Jesus.Even when all we had were the old 24B's you got two pairs of 'em!
    Because the DoD/DF don't give a flying fcuk about the troops and nobody has the spine to stand up for troop welfare?
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

  19. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Were they not sent out last month??
    If they were, they must be sitting in a container in Beirut because the troops don't have them.

  20. #65
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    Just heard from a lad out there that the Scouts are to be issued later this week - 3 months late. Take that info as you want, just passing on in good faith.
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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  22. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    Just heard from a lad out there that the Scouts are to be issued later this week - 3 months late. Take that info as you want, just passing on in good faith.
    Same troops were also told they would be issued in form up, then the MRE, then the first month and so on.

    In fairness, the troops did get a fairly decent OD kit bag that seems to be generally accepted as a great bit of kit. Not sure if it is for general issue

    A very senior officer recently told the troops (in 2-45) that they would also be with them before the end of August.

    Yet here we are.

    Far more important things to address than boots to be honest. But if you can't do the little things right etc etc.

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  24. #67
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Good ballhop going round that J4 DHL'd 400 pairs of boots out to the Leb and when the lads opened the boxes they found Black steel toe cap boots!!

    Seriously though.The lads forming up for the 113th have been told they are getting them during form up along with the new kit bag.(Black, same as the EOD team bags and supposed to be a monster)
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  26. #68
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    Off topic, but any pics of the kit bag?
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

  27. #69
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    Off topic, but any pics of the kit bag?
    None at present.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  29. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Same troops were also told they would be issued in form up, then the MRE, then the first month and so on.

    In fairness, the troops did get a fairly decent OD kit bag that seems to be generally accepted as a great bit of kit. Not sure if it is for general issue

    A very senior officer recently told the troops (in 2-45) that they would also be with them before the end of August.

    Yet here we are.

    Far more important things to address than boots to be honest. But if you can't do the little things right etc etc.
    Said kit bag is NOT for general issue. Like the Scout it will be issued to overseas only as limited quantities have been bought. Reports seem to be good on the kit bag, they're rated for 30 kgs or so, haven't heard of a burst one yet.

    Bucks post is on the money, boots are to be issued within the next week according to those in the know. Just remember that getting stuff to the Leb isn't that simple, anyone who's been there in a logs role will tell you that when stuff finally arrives in Beirut it then languishes for weeks in customs. Its something like 16 working days. There is a new trusted importer exporter scheme going to reduce this time but that doesn't apply to goods going to UNIFIL.

    The whole boot shenanigans has been caused by delay and prevarication at the very top level going back to late last year about what colour to go for, which delayed the signing of the contract, which in turn delayed the production and has had a cascading effect down the line to the troops on the ground.

    Just remember when outdoor shops or their distributors order boots, they don't order a few thousand random pairs for delivery next month. Before a product is launched for 2019, a order will have gone in for rolling deliveries across an entire year in q2/q3 2018 at latest. The manufacturer will plan production accordingly. Throwing in a random order for a few thousand boots disrupts this process as other orders need to be filled so the manufacturer will not be putting in a special effort.

    Remember a few thousand boots is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. Its a what an outdoor shop with multiple branches might sell over the course of a year. Unless your in the tens of thousands order book, changes are NOT going to be made to the production schedule for you. So few in the DF seem to grasp this. There are plenty from Colonels to privates who believe because we wear a uniform that we are special and manufacturers will rush for our business. We're not. The planning and tendering process needs to take account for this.

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  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    Off topic, but any pics of the kit bag?
    https://www.seyntex.com/en/our-produ...rrying-systems

    Have a look at the one on this page. Imagine a stripped down less molle'd version and essentially you have the new kit bag. Same manufacturer.

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  33. #72
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Said kit bag is NOT for general issue AT THE MOMENT Like the Scout it will be issued to overseas only AT THE MOMENT as limited quantities have been bought. Reports seem to be good on the kit bag, they're rated for 30 kgs or so, haven't heard of a burst one yet.
    Fixed that for you. CQ in Bde stores has told us that the bag is replacing the "school bag" alongside a new carry on bag that can take your helmet.Scouts to go on general issue in 2019.
    UNIFIL lads forming up with the 113th still got issued Black Light Op boots though. Weird.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  34. #73
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    "School bag" - I can't wait to see it gone.

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  36. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by northie View Post
    https://www.seyntex.com/en/our-produ...rrying-systems

    Have a look at the one on this page. Imagine a stripped down less molle'd version and essentially you have the new kit bag. Same manufacturer.
    That certainly looks like a sturdy bag. Hopefully this cuts down on "buy cheap, buy twice"
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  37. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    That certainly looks like a sturdy bag. Hopefully this cuts down on "buy cheap, buy twice"
    Its central zip opening as opposed to what is in the picture. Foldaway shoulder straps that can be packed away during transit. Everything has been stripped down to save costs. but there are two external zipped pockets, two non zipped external pockets (pointless) and there's five internal pockets as well, four zipped and one plastic one for presumably keeping wet or damp items in. It simple. It works.

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