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  1. #226
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    There isn't any. As long as they are brown and issued they can wear them AFAIK.

    I wonder also if the Drop shorts will be issued both the normal Scouts for day to day use AND the new Safe toes that are only being purchased for them?
    Same with the Wing.I can't see them cutting about in Brown Lowas all the time either.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Meanwhile the MOD 7 years ago did this
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/d...w-combat-boots

    I do wonder how that works for uniformity for parade though
    There's no such thing now - and we've discovered that it doesn't matter.

    Lots of people, me included, wear the Aku base boot for general mooching, but once you're out on the range or whatever it's anything goes.

    They don't even need to be issue boots, the choice available means that almost everyone does wear one of the issued boots, but there are people who wear non-issued boots - stuff like Meindls, Lowas etc...

    If we do a parade - like a freedom march - we'll try and get everyone in a similar boot, and the last time I did one it was a mix of Alt-bergs and Haixs CWW(and I presume anything else that looked similar) but that's the extent of uniformity of boots.

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  4. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Yeah.I saw that too.There were Hi-Res photos from the EX on IKON. The P.A's were wearing (mostly) the Desert version of the Scouts. Which is odd as I thought they had stopped buying Desert Boots as they were running down the last of the stock of the Desert Magnums by issuing them to Officers going to the likes of the Western Sahara etc.
    Maybe they bought the Desert Scouts to trial and had them on stock so could issue them on this occasion? A funny one I grant you.I bet the Lads/Lasses in Syria and the Leb loved that one.
    As part of the trial, i understand that the desert colour scouts were procured for and issued to senior officers and ncos serving in UNIFIL hq (possibly UNDOF as well?) , as force hq nearly all wear desert boots.

    Haven't seen them outside of that.

  5. #229
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northie View Post
    As part of the trial, i understand that the desert colour scouts were procured for and issued to senior officers and ncos serving in UNIFIL hq (possibly UNDOF as well?) , as force hq nearly all wear desert boots.

    Haven't seen them outside of that.
    Gotta love that one. Blokes working in Airconed offices get Desert Boots but the lads on Patrols and Duties up in the hills had to wear Black boots. Yup. Good one that.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  7. #230
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    As an aside the Boot tender competition closes tommorrow. Let's hope it goes OK this time. Should see the new footwear sometime after 2023 if it does.
    (Going by how long the Updated DPMs are taking to roll out)
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  8. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Gotta love that one. Blokes working in Airconed offices get Desert Boots but the lads on Patrols and Duties up in the hills had to wear Black boots. Yup. Good one that.
    Its all about cost and surplus pairs. To be fair I'd be ditching the damn things for the summer. This obsession with goretex in the industry is bonkers.

  9. #232
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northie View Post
    Its all about cost and surplus pairs. To be fair I'd be ditching the damn things for the summer. This obsession with goretex in the industry is bonkers.
    That's the crux of everything that seems to be going on RE Kit these days. Cost cutting is the order of the day and damn the wellbeing of the troops.
    I mean the person who thought up the whole "single boot concept" obviously never consulted ANYONE who has to operate at ground level about the practicalities of having one pair of one type of boots and expecting them to do you 7 days a week no matter what you are on the day before.
    No. It's just "We need to the find money from somewhere for something else,I know lets take their second pair of boots off them.That will work.Woo hoo,Tea and medals".
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  11. #233
    BQMS spider pig's Avatar
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    Tbh I’d rather a kit allowance to get my own at this stage. Having got the new boot I found I opted for my brown lows renegades since the were lighter, wider foot, didn’t make my feet sweat and just am all round better boot comfort wise
    Sir I cant find my peltors........Private they are on your face

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  13. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    That's the crux of everything that seems to be going on RE Kit these days. Cost cutting is the order of the day and damn the wellbeing of the troops.
    I mean the person who thought up the whole "single boot concept" obviously never consulted ANYONE who has to operate at ground level about the practicalities of having one pair of one type of boots and expecting them to do you 7 days a week no matter what you are on the day before.
    No. It's just "We need to the find money from somewhere for something else,I know lets take their second pair of boots off them.That will work.Woo hoo,Tea and medals".
    Genuine question. Have you ever volunteered to be a member in your local clothing committee or sought out upcoming review boards re clothing & equipment?

    You seem to have quite strong (mostly negative) views about clothing and equipment and I'd be interested to know what you have (or have not) fed back into recent procurement issues and what the results, if any, were.

    In my experience, people dive for cover, when names are looled for re clothing boards and review boards etc.

    Has anyone expressed their concern to the new "Army Sergeant Major". I'm sure he could relate to the difficulties you refer to.

    I'm in agreement by the way, one pair of boots for all events and weather is ridiculous.

    Soldiers love to crib. They don't love putting pen to paper though which unfortunately is the only available mechanism to try and change things.

  14. #235
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Genuine question. Have you ever volunteered to be a member in your local clothing committee or sought out upcoming review boards re clothing & equipment?

    You seem to have quite strong (mostly negative) views about clothing and equipment and I'd be interested to know what you have (or have not) fed back into recent procurement issues and what the results, if any, were.

    In my experience, people dive for cover, when names are looled for re clothing boards and review boards etc.

    Has anyone expressed their concern to the new "Army Sergeant Major". I'm sure he could relate to the difficulties you refer to.

    I'm in agreement by the way, one pair of boots for all events and weather is ridiculous.

    Soldiers love to crib. They don't love putting pen to paper though which unfortunately is the only available mechanism to try and change things.
    Ok. Two points. This is a discussion forum.With different sections to deal with different areas of interest and concern to the members here. So whether you like or agree with the tone of my posts on the subjects I post on is moot. Unless I contravene forum rules then I,like you, reserve the right to post my opinions. You don't have to agree with them and can debate me all you like but the tone of you post above smacks of "Unless you have done something constructive then shut up". That might work in the Bks mate but not here. Ok?

    Second. Anyone who knows me,and many here do,know my history and what I have done and not done in my time in the DF. If you need proof of same before you decide to take my opinion seriously rather than just dismiss me as a "cribber" than I will be happy to discuss same by PM because if I do so here some person,probably just like you,will haul me in and tell me to "stop cribbing"

    Lets face it.The reason nobody posts anything of significance on the IKON discussion forum is because when they do they are hauled in and told to "Stop cribbing". Hence why people feel they have no voice.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Ok. Two points. This is a discussion forum.With different sections to deal with different areas of interest and concern to the members here. So whether you like or agree with the tone of my posts on the subjects I post on is moot. Unless I contravene forum rules then I,like you, reserve the right to post my opinions. You don't have to agree with them and can debate me all you like but the tone of you post above smacks of "Unless you have done something constructive then shut up". That might work in the Bks mate but not here. Ok?

    Second. Anyone who knows me,and many here do,know my history and what I have done and not done in my time in the DF. If you need proof of same before you decide to take my opinion seriously rather than just dismiss me as a "cribber" than I will be happy to discuss same by PM because if I do so here some person,probably just like you,will haul me in and tell me to "stop cribbing"

    Lets face it.The reason nobody posts anything of significance on the IKON discussion forum is because when they do they are hauled in and told to "Stop cribbing". Hence why people feel they have no voice.
    I'm not debating with you or disagreeing with your opinion in this particular instance. Nor am I implying that you are, or dismissing you as a cribber.

    However, if someone is repeatedly critical of procurement decisions then asking whether they have actively sought to try and address perceived issues is a fair question.

    I've listened to people of all ranks pass comment on various issues and when asked if they have done anything about, the answer is almost always the same - nothing. Likewise, when the same people are offered the opportunity to provide some feedback or solutions, the individual is quite likely to shy away. If you are happy to be surrounded by people who complain but offer no solutions, then more power to you. Fostering that type of environment achieves absolutely nothing.

    As for someone pulling you in to give out, well, I don't know what your chain of command is like but Im quite confident that if I raised a genuine issue that was supported by legitimate reasoned arguments and offer possible courses of action, that it would be supported within my own CoC. It may well of course be thrown back in my face but at least I'll have attempted to improve an issue.

    To dismiss the idea of raising legitimate concerns on the basis that you will be hauled into someone's office is a poor excuse. There's a reason tact forms part of ones performance appraisal.

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  18. #237
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    @Apod,

    All things being equal, out of the following two options, which do you think is more likely to be better received and which is more likely to be used in improving an issue:

    1. A public (if you can call IKON public) post critiquing something to do with a policy, dress, training, procurement etc which offers little context for the bigger picture and offering unrealistic or worse still, no possible courses of action to address it.

    2. A well thought out written submission through the CoC which includes reasoned well thought out arguments for or against an issue and offers several achievable courses of action.

    I know what option I would choose. You will probably disagree with me or invent barriers as to why people cannot do this but the reality is that anyone can provided they put in a little bit of effort.

    I don't frequent the discussion forum on IKON much. Mainly because alot of it is not relevant to my location. That said, there has been some really good discussion on occasion. However, there has also been some absolute drivel posted also. It is a good idea in principle but I've yet to see anything tangible be achieved by posting on IKON. Maybe you have?

  19. #238
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Chuck. Check your PM's for my response to your points.If I reply here I may as well quit IMO.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  20. #239
    Recruit Poiuyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    As for someone pulling you in to give out, well, I don't know what your chain of command is like but Im quite confident that if I raised a genuine issue that was supported by legitimate reasoned arguments and offer possible courses of action, that it would be supported within my own CoC. It may well of course be thrown back in my face but at least I'll have attempted to improve an issue.

    To dismiss the idea of raising legitimate concerns on the basis that you will be hauled into someone's office is a poor excuse. There's a reason tact forms part of ones performance appraisal.
    I don't know what army you are in but in this mans army, to question why things are done the way they are and suggesting improvements are a mugs game. I've done it, I've done it many times. Your suggestion either goes straight to Colonel shredder or you get labeled "difficult to work with". This army is obsessed with maintaining the status quo - suggesting an idea means something that could go wrong and is very much frowned upon. Do nothing but don't **** up, you're gold - suggest something, try to make it work, fail, but learn from it - career suicide. I have been burned many MANY times and I've seen months and months of work shredded because it it was beyond the minimum work required. I'm cynical, VERY cynical, and also very realistic about how things work.

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  22. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Chuck. Check your PM's for my response to your points.If I reply here I may as well quit IMO.
    Seen. I have replied but after I click send my message is not appearing in my sent items. Not sure what the issue is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poiuyt View Post
    I don't know what army you are in but in this mans army, to question why things are done the way they are and suggesting improvements are a mugs game. I've done it, I've done it many times. Your suggestion either goes straight to Colonel shredder or you get labeled "difficult to work with". This army is obsessed with maintaining the status quo - suggesting an idea means something that could go wrong and is very much frowned upon. Do nothing but don't **** up, you're gold - suggest something, try to make it work, fail, but learn from it - career suicide. I have been burned many MANY times and I've seen months and months of work shredded because it it was beyond the minimum work required. I'm cynical, VERY cynical, and also very realistic about how things work.
    I'm sorry to hear that that has been your experience. My expeirence to date has been a bit more positive, with the wins outweighing the losses.

    Ultimately, people shouldn't be put off trying to influence change. There are ways and means but if we all close up shop and accept that nothing will change well we are going south quicker than I thought. I do accept what you are saying though but I don't think your experience accurate reflects the culture in all BDEs and formations.

    Anyway, I've moved the discussion off topic. Moving on.

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