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  1. #176
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    I note that negotiations are in place to release Rosslare Harbour from UK ownership. Given that the state has managed to stop the train from going as far as the actual terminal in the ferry port, I don't hold out much hope of them encouraging expansion by whoever end up owning it.
    Bantry was neglected for many years, but recently the new pier was completed and it was large enough to safely berth one of our P60 recently.
    Still a long way from when a train used to terminate at the end of the north quays. Our government is sea blind. It only sees our waters as places of leisure pursuit, rather than a vital transport route, as important, if not more so, than any motorway.
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  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    I note that negotiations are in place to release Rosslare Harbour from UK ownership. Given that the state has managed to stop the train from going as far as the actual terminal in the ferry port, I don't hold out much hope of them encouraging expansion by whoever end up owning it.
    Bantry was neglected for many years, but recently the new pier was completed and it was large enough to safely berth one of our P60 recently.
    Still a long way from when a train used to terminate at the end of the north quays. Our government is sea blind. It only sees our waters as places of leisure pursuit, rather than a vital transport route, as important, if not more so, than any motorway.
    Absolutely! well said.

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  4. #178
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    As long as the Multinationals do the work providing the jobs. our 2nd rate chancers do not have to be intelligent or plan long term.
    Being a Sliddery hoor will get them by.

  5. #179
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  7. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I think we look at it from the wrong perspective. While it has been proven that successive governments have been 'sea blind' since the inception of the state looking at alternatives should be focused on private investment . i.e where it becomes viable for private entities to own dry docking and berthage and for the state to lease them back at reasonable cost, therefore reducing the capital investment the state makes. Bantry as a Naval facility has always had merit but its isolation from the major road networks makes it unattractive as do several other west coast locations
    The privatisation of key state facilities/provisions has led to a dilution of availability, often controlled by entities, outside the country, and with a different agenda. Strategic infrastructure needs to be in control of the State. Every Navy should, within it's own territory, have ports of refuge in order to create reserves and/or move assets. The rush to turn historic ports into Office, accommodation, and leisure hubs, without making adequate alternative provisions for marine traffic is an illustration of the Agenda pursued by others not properly controlled

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  9. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The privatisation of key state facilities/provisions has led to a dilution of availability, often controlled by entities, outside the country, and with a different agenda. Strategic infrastructure needs to be in control of the State. Every Navy should, within it's own territory, have ports of refuge in order to create reserves and/or move assets. The rush to turn historic ports into Office, accommodation, and leisure hubs, without making adequate alternative provisions for marine traffic is an illustration of the Agenda pursued by others not properly controlled
    Announced today that Brittany Ferries is pulling out of Ringaskiddy and terminating the Cork- Santander Route. They are moving to Rosslare with a service to Brittany. Basically Ringaskiddy is in the wrong place for them for access to onward routes. Ships still anchoring off the port waiting for berths. We must get on with Ports development other than solo runs by consortium's wishes. We are doomed as a trading Nation if the Government doesn't take charge of our Maritime future.

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  11. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Announced today that Brittany Ferries is pulling out of Ringaskiddy and terminating the Cork- Santander Route. They are moving to Rosslare with a service to Brittany. Basically Ringaskiddy is in the wrong place for them for access to onward routes. Ships still anchoring off the port waiting for berths. We must get on with Ports development other than solo runs by consortium's wishes. We are doomed as a trading Nation if the Government doesn't take charge of our Maritime future.
    They are keeping the Seasonal weekend Cork - Roscoff service on the Pont-Aven, its the "economy" service (that would be mainly used by freight) to Spain and Roscoff thats moving to Rosslare.

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  13. #183
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    That was the earner. Tourists want holiday value and to travel in comfort. Rolling freight want reliability. Brittany ferries Economie offered neither. Combined with a will they/won't they for the road upgrade, and the ferry terminal being in the middle of a building site for the last 2 years, didn't help getting good reviews on trip advisor.
    There are other plans for a cork to spain link, but they are just that and expectations need to be realistic. Putting a vessel with few onboard passenger facilities on a 20 hour crossing suits nobody.
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  15. #184
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    More like twenty six and a half hours sailing time to Santander , the Visentini class of vessel may not be every ones cup of tea but I have done a few trips on several of them and found them to be pretty good and solid at sea , little or no noise or vibration in the accommodation area as well. I'm looking forward to sailing to Bilbao as it means one hour less driving to my destination in France .
    Last edited by Laners; 30th January 2020 at 21:16.
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  17. #185
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    Apparently the proposed Cork to spain route will go to Vigo.
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  18. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Apparently the proposed Cork to spain route will go to Vigo.
    I doubt it will happen , if there was freight traffic to support it then Brittany Ferries would have stayed as they were . The vessel that is being talked about for this Vigo service Rizhao Orient would also be an Economy style service and has been sitting in China for a few years .
    Last edited by Laners; 30th January 2020 at 21:48.
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  19. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Apparently the proposed Cork to spain route will go to Vigo.
    Vigo will be a whole new ball game, the port is well south of Cape Villano and Cape Finisterre. The south going traffic zone is almost 25nm offshore unless passenger ships are allowed transit the Internal traffic Zone (ITZ). It would be an ocean voyage from Cork to Vigo through the Bay of Biscay requiring a well appointed ship to cope with the winter passages.

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  21. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    I doubt it will happen , if there was freight traffic to support it then Brittany Ferries would have stayed as they were . The vessel that is being talked about for this Vigo service Rizhao Orient would also be an Economy style service and has been sitting in China for a few years .
    Brittany specifically shifted after talking to haulage companies about their requirements.

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  23. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Brittany specifically shifted after talking to haulage companies about their requirements.
    Correct , which means where is the haulage traffic to support a route to Vigo , and remember freight is the bread and butter of any such ferry service not the few months of tourist season .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  25. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Correct , which means where is the haulage traffic to support a route to Vigo , and remember freight is the bread and butter of any such ferry service not the few months of tourist season .
    There is something not quite right with the handling of ships at Cork port. Yesterday there were 6 ships waiting for berths, 2 at anchor in the harbour roads, and 4 anchored outside , south of Roches point. Delay or demurrage is a cost that has to be borne by somebody.

  26. #191
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    What type? There are still 2 container berths at Tivoli, but they rarely go to lay by. No shortage of quays upriver on the jetties. The only delay is if they are still doing dredging in the ringaskiddy basin.
    Could it be they just got here early, expecting weather conditions to be worse for the time of year?
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  27. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    What type? There are still 2 container berths at Tivoli, but they rarely go to lay by. No shortage of quays upriver on the jetties. The only delay is if they are still doing dredging in the ringaskiddy basin.
    Could it be they just got here early, expecting weather conditions to be worse for the time of year?
    Hell I've seen some that lay off the harbour mouth but never enter the harbour at all.

  28. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    What type? There are still 2 container berths at Tivoli, but they rarely go to lay by. No shortage of quays upriver on the jetties. The only delay is if they are still doing dredging in the ringaskiddy basin.
    Could it be they just got here early, expecting weather conditions to be worse for the time of year?
    Don't think so , this has been the trend for some time. The four outside included a 1000 tonne little bulker for City Quays , the others were one container ship and two large bulker type. I think the problem is berthage and handling associated with the port fragmentation.

  29. #194
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    Very odd to see a container vessel waiting. Very costly too, they run on a very tight schedule. Waiting for Tide?
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  30. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Very odd to see a container vessel waiting. Very costly too, they run on a very tight schedule. Waiting for Tide?
    Shortage of pilots?

  31. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggie View Post
    Shortage of pilots?
    Possibly an additional reason. However the moving of existing Ports to sea is prompted by developmental aspirations of huge financial gains on land sales and putting high rise, high rent, units on the city quay walls. The problem is the down river berths for all traffic types is not ready or enough in both Cork and Waterford. The country needs ports that are tide friendly and needs dredgers to keep them so. There are other ports- Sligo-Drogheda-Wicklow-Arklow.

  32. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Possibly an additional reason. However the moving of existing Ports to sea is prompted by developmental aspirations of huge financial gains on land sales and putting high rise, high rent, units on the city quay walls. The problem is the down river berths for all traffic types is not ready or enough in both Cork and Waterford. The country needs ports that are tide friendly and needs dredgers to keep them so. There are other ports- Sligo-Drogheda-Wicklow-Arklow.
    There is an article on the history and future of GALWAY Harbour in the March Edition of the SEA Breezes Magazine. The idea is to move the port into a reclaimed zone and provide around 600m of berthage for all kinds of shipping in a harbour provided with breakwaters. It mentions leisure provisions and Naval Berthage and of course the conversion of the current harbour into a developers heaven. It mentions that new harbour will handle cruise units up to 12000-20000 tonnes which will not meet the current typical cruise tonnages of 20000-60000 tonnes while the number over 100000 tonnes is becoming the norm. Harmony of the Seas is a 220000 tonner. I hope there will be proper estimations made and the harbour built to meet the actual requirement.

  33. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    There is an article on the history and future of GALWAY Harbour in the March Edition of the SEA Breezes Magazine. The idea is to move the port into a reclaimed zone and provide around 600m of berthage for all kinds of shipping in a harbour provided with breakwaters. It mentions leisure provisions and Naval Berthage and of course the conversion of the current harbour into a developers heaven. It mentions that new harbour will handle cruise units up to 12000-20000 tonnes which will not meet the current typical cruise tonnages of 20000-60000 tonnes while the number over 100000 tonnes is becoming the norm. Harmony of the Seas is a 220000 tonner. I hope there will be proper estimations made and the harbour built to meet the actual requirement.
    I received a book/research study into port histories by Maritime History dept in the Memorial University of Newfoundland. The study makes many interesting points including that ports were always about bringing goods, materials, and people together, whether for import or export worldwide. The best ports were always those that were city based and convenient to the handling of cargoes and adjacent to administrative offices of shippers and stevedores. The success of a port depended on long term engineering planning for the efficient and rapid handling of cargo and the provision of port of refuge facilities such as ship repair and drydocking.
    While ports are critical to the status and strength of a nation the operation of ports fell to port users and authorities emanating from those users. Hierarchies of decision making emerged leading to many short term revisions that lost sight of current port technology. It concludes , in this case , that government did not view port services provision as a national industry. There is a current Government study into Maritime matters. I hope they research widely and look at busy ports, includimg some that see no problem in 5km of berthage in a single port.

  34. #199
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    It is not just the port itself but the links it has to the main economic areas. Looking at the biggest ports in Europe they are almost all on river systems with good rail and road networks. It is no good having the best port if it is not linked on the land side. If we look at Cork, there is not even a motorway linking it to Limerick or Waterford. Where is the link road bypassing the city for port traffic coming and going from Ringaskiddy?

    Rosslare is similar, the is no motorway link to Waterford at all and the link to Dublin is only partial.

    This is why there has to be a strategic national plan for infrastructure not just looking at Maritime on its own.

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  36. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    It is not just the port itself but the links it has to the main economic areas. Looking at the biggest ports in Europe they are almost all on river systems with good rail and road networks. It is no good having the best port if it is not linked on the land side. If we look at Cork, there is not even a motorway linking it to Limerick or Waterford. Where is the link road bypassing the city for port traffic coming and going from Ringaskiddy?

    Rosslare is similar, the is no motorway link to Waterford at all and the link to Dublin is only partial.

    This is why there has to be a strategic national plan for infrastructure not just looking at Maritime on its own.
    Ringaskiddy: Work in Progress, the NIMBYs delayed it as long as they could. Combined with the Dunkettle interchange works it will make traversing easier. The lack of motorway to either Waterford or Limerick is an arguement for another day. All our motorways eminate from Dublin. No reason you would not want to go either to or from dublin for anything urgent or important, apparently. And once you are there, you can go anywhere else. The railway network shares this logic. All routes lead to Dublin.
    Rosslare: The closer you get to it, the worse the roads are, the more you think you have taken a wrong turn. As I said before, the train doesn't even go to the ferry any more, even though the station Rosslare Harbour (ferry) is built on the quayside. The train stops just inside the Rosslare Harbour(village) area. Walk the rest of the way, plebs.
    Dublin: The Port tunnel helped, but it ignored the fact that anyone bringing goods to or from the Southern docks to clients in the South East, or South, will not cross the Liffey to enter the Port Tunnel, to join the Northernmost end of the M50 Car Park. So instead you have heavy goods vehicles, negotiating the leafy suburbs of the southside, on roads never designed for HGVs, putting Pedestrians and cyclists at risk while doing so. Most can't be blamed because they are just following their satnav. Surprising how much port traffic goes through Dundrum.
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