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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Brittany Ferries launched their 2021 sailing schedule today and it includes an additional weekly sailing from Cork to Roscoff on Wednesday's , departing Ringaskiddy at 16.00hrs arriving Roscoff at 08.00hrs the following day , this will be a seasonal service like the Pont Aven running from March to October and will serviced by the Brittany Ferries cruise ferry Armorique . The inbound sailing departs Roscoff on Tuesday's at 19:30hrs arriving Ringaskiddy on Wednesday's at 09:30hrs .
    They have also announced that they are moving the Rosslare-France service to Cherbourg from next year at the request of the hauliers.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/busine...-40020779.html

    I do wonder what the load factors are for Irish Ferries on the Dublin - Cherbourg route or did they identify a potential opening for freight traffic between NI and the Continent via Dublin post brexit?
    Last edited by CTU; 23rd July 2020 at 20:12.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  3. #302
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    That's been flagged for a while. Roscoff is a fine port but a long way from the Autoroute motorway network.
    The UK is no longer a viable route through the UK to the continent post brexit. The notion of parking up in Kent for a few days while HMRC go over the paperwork to decide how much duty to charge is not a viable option for any haulier, with no deal on the cards.
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  5. #303
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    No way that this would ever have fitted on the old Verolme yard:

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-...ins-in-rosyth/

  6. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    No way that this would ever have fitted on the old Verolme yard:

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-...ins-in-rosyth/
    That's exactly what some young INS engineer submitted for consideration as a half way house towards an Irish Naval covered drydock. Initially a covered, ambient stable, structure over the drydock area so that ships could be worked on afloat and opened up as necessary. The unit to include offices, toilets, and wash rooms. Cover from the South and leave a work area to the North for fitting a cassion or power driven gates as OPW have done in several places on the Shannon.

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  8. #305
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    Was it ever planned to have a lock at the entrance to the basin?
    Most other RN dockyard basins have a lock system but Haulbowline only ever had a caission at the entrance AFAIK.

  9. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Was it ever planned to have a lock at the entrance to the basin?
    Most other RN dockyard basins have a lock system but Haulbowline only ever had a caission at the entrance AFAIK.
    They had , and used, both up to the WW1. The drydock could be used exclusively with it's own cassion. Equally the entrance could be closed and pumped out to drydock large cruisers with blocks running from the drydock out into the basin. They might have done an american Cruiser at one time. We sold all the cassions to Hammond Lane and removed pumps and associated control structures. It is the story of a service that continually becomes something else through pruning and redacting old capabilities. It's a bit like taking off your front gate because it is a pain opening it and paying someone to look after it-so just scrap it.

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  11. #307
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    The Caisson used to be half floating in the drydock. You can see it on google maps. Wile it may no longer be serviceable, at least it could be reverse engineered.


    A covered drydock would actually bring an unintended advantage. While the old steel plant was ugly, it also provided a huge windbreak between the mouth of the harbour and the "Cobh roads" even those working in the basin found that the removal of the plant, while better for their overall health, made many locations on the island more exposed than they ever were in the past to prevailing weather conditions.
    With regards to Hammond Lane, their original depot in Blackpool for years had a 4 inch from the Corvettes as a gate guardian. When they moved down to Ringaskiddy I don't know where it ended up. Even the scrap men saw the true value of such an item.
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  13. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    The Caisson used to be half floating in the drydock. You can see it on google maps. Wile it may no longer be serviceable, at least it could be reverse engineered.


    A covered drydock would actually bring an unintended advantage. While the old steel plant was ugly, it also provided a huge windbreak between the mouth of the harbour and the "Cobh roads" even those working in the basin found that the removal of the plant, while better for their overall health, made many locations on the island more exposed than they ever were in the past to prevailing weather conditions.
    With regards to Hammond Lane, their original depot in Blackpool for years had a 4 inch from the Corvettes as a gate guardian. When they moved down to Ringaskiddy I don't know where it ended up. Even the scrap men saw the true value of such an item.
    Really never knew it was still there as two caissons were sold to Hammond Lane. They cut them partially in Cobh. Something sunk and cost a few bob to recover. Didn't know it was policy to sell a gun on a ship consigned to scrap. I hope they removed the Block and Firing pin mechanism. In any event who justified the dismantling of our yards greatest asset.

  14. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Really never knew it was still there as two caissons were sold to Hammond Lane. They cut them partially in Cobh. Something sunk and cost a few bob to recover. Didn't know it was policy to sell a gun on a ship consigned to scrap. I hope they removed the Block and Firing pin mechanism. In any event who justified the dismantling of our yards greatest asset.
    Looking at the plan for 1910, there are a few more assets that have gone! Dock side cranes etc.
    Haulbowline_1910.jpg

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  16. #310
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    The 60 tonne Sheers was initially used by the Steel mill, then later upgraded with a travelling dockside crane, with magnetic grab. The Dockside opposite remained for some time until getting fuel became an issue. It was, as all large cranes of a certain vintage were, Steam powered, and driven by a coal fired boiler. In time it became difficult to justify sourcing coal for it, while all the ships were oil fired, and the average pot bellied stove was to be fed with turf.
    An 80 tonne Mobile crane was purchased about 10 years ago from Rigo, in Italy, to do most of the required lifting. Unfortunately it was Just too small to be a useful replacement, lacking the capacity and reach required. A larger second hand crane could have been sourced locally, and would have been more useful. I understand there is an RFT in place for a new mobile crane but I have not seen the details.
    Sadly when the steel mill was demolished, they also removed all the dockside cranes, which ran on rails, from the west wall. One went all the way out Spencer Jetty. The need for them to be dismantled was questionable.

    USS Cassin(DD43) was repaired in the Drydock in Haulbowline after being torpedoed by U61. Her stern was blown off in the attack and to work on her repairs it was necessary to pump out the entire Basin, closing it at its mouth.

    The Caisson in Haulbowline are identical in size to those found at the dock in Portsmouth. Not surprising as theirs are the same vintage and concept, with a basin that can be closed from tidal range, and dry docks within. Their basin is much larger in area though. Their caisson were recently upgraded at a cost of just about £1.5m.
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  18. #311
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    [Na Grohmiti Quote]

    The Caisson in Haulbowline are identical in size to those found at the dock in Portsmouth. Not surprising as theirs are the same vintage and concept, with a basin that can be closed from tidal range, and dry docks within. Their basin is much larger in area though. Their caisson were recently upgraded at a cost of just about £1.5m.[/QUOTE]

    What we need to do is get the expert opinion of a world leader in Naval Port Building and ancillary accommodations and services. The RoyalhasKoningDHV Netherlands has done such work across the world including UK, Singapore, Thailand etc.. They did some work at British Naval ports. To bring our Naval port back, to where we got it, we need to act now before irreparable damage is done in the interests of expediency. We need to also consider building a secondary Naval port in a non-commercial Harbour area but in range of the NMCI, perhaps in part of Cork Lower Harbour, Baltimore, Youghal etc.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 14th August 2020 at 09:41.

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  20. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    [Na Grohmiti Quote]

    The Caisson in Haulbowline are identical in size to those found at the dock in Portsmouth. Not surprising as theirs are the same vintage and concept, with a basin that can be closed from tidal range, and dry docks within. Their basin is much larger in area though. Their caisson were recently upgraded at a cost of just about £1.5m.
    What we need to do is get the expert opinion of a world leader in Naval Port Building and ancillary accommodations and services. The RoyalhasKoningDHV Netherlands has done such work across the world including UK, Singapore, Thailand etc.. They did some work at British Naval ports. To bring our Naval port back, to where we got it, we need to act now before irreparable damage is done in the interests of expediency. We need to also consider building a secondary Naval port in a non-commercial Harbour area but in range of the NMCI, perhaps in part of Cork Lower Harbour, Baltimore, Youghal etc.[/QUOTE]

    I mentioned before our need for a port of refuge. In Irish maritime heritage they have rediscovered a port, on B&W video, known locally as Clare Port, Clarecastle, or the port for Ennis. The last ship discharged there in 1969. It is in the Shannon Estruary North Shore. It would need to be surveyed and charted, there may be local charts used by pilots. It would need dredging, refitting as a Naval Port, a few buildings, and security arrangements. As it was abandoned, the CCC could be approached to have it for exclusive use devoid , now and in the future , of amenity parks and picnic areas.

  21. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post

    I mentioned before our need for a port of refuge. In Irish maritime heritage they have rediscovered a port, on B&W video, known locally as Clare Port, Clarecastle, or the port for Ennis. The last ship discharged there in 1969. It is in the Shannon Estruary North Shore. It would need to be surveyed and charted, there may be local charts used by pilots. It would need dredging, refitting as a Naval Port, a few buildings, and security arrangements. As it was abandoned, the CCC could be approached to have it for exclusive use devoid , now and in the future , of amenity parks and picnic areas.
    If it's the one I'm thinking of it would need lots of dredging and plenty of tugs. Because the land around it is quite flat, it is very silted, much like Ballinacurra in East cork, but without the direct route to Sea.
    The airport fire service in Shannon used to have a hovercraft in case of an aircraft overshooting in this area. Boats are of little use most of the tide. The newer runway meant approach was less likely to end up in the mud though.

    There are better options out there.
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  23. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    I mentioned before our need for a port of refuge. In Irish maritime heritage they have rediscovered a port, on B&W video, known locally as Clare Port, Clarecastle, or the port for Ennis. The last ship discharged there in 1969. It is in the Shannon Estruary North Shore. It would need to be surveyed and charted, there may be local charts used by pilots. It would need dredging, refitting as a Naval Port, a few buildings, and security arrangements. As it was abandoned, the CCC could be approached to have it for exclusive use devoid , now and in the future , of amenity parks and picnic areas.
    Clarecastle is not suitable for anything larger than small pleasure craft.
    It lies on the River Fergus and despite what many may think there is a half decent channel from the Shannon. But the channel is not marked and without that no pleasure craft is going to try the journey. But with channel markers and regular channel maintenance then pilotage should not be an issue.

    For the NS Foynes is just so much easier to call into.

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  25. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Clarecastle is not suitable for anything larger than small pleasure craft.
    It lies on the River Fergus and despite what many may think there is a half decent channel from the Shannon. But the channel is not marked and without that no pleasure craft is going to try the journey. But with channel markers and regular channel maintenance then pilotage should not be an issue.

    For the NS Foynes is just so much easier to call into.
    It would be good to avoid a commercial port area. If there was no permanent obstruction, like a road bridge, then the rest could be done by building and dredging. Cargo vessels got in there up to 1969. An exclusive berthage for at least two ships with LWS 7m in channel and LWS 8m at berth. Get Irish Lights to set up channel and leading marks.

  26. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    It would be good to avoid a commercial port area. If there was no permanent obstruction, like a road bridge, then the rest could be done by building and dredging. Cargo vessels got in there up to 1969. An exclusive berthage for at least two ships with LWS 7m in channel and LWS 8m at berth. Get Irish Lights to set up channel and leading marks.
    I could not find any charts of the harbour or the channel above Curragh Point.
    But I did manage to find a photo of the quay looking south, so I do not know exactly how deep the water I would very much doubt that it is very much.
    The_Quay_Clarecastle.jpgThe_Quay_Clarecastle_Closeup.jpg

    I take it that this is the film which started the interest:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O2T...ature=youtu.be

    Clarecastle (then just Clare) is mentioned in Commander James Wolfe’s Sailing Directions circa 1840
    Beyond this it would be impossible to proceed without a pilot. The river beyond Coney Island winds through vast banks of mud, extending from 1 to 1½ miles from the shore, decreasing gradually in width from 600 yards, and varying in depth from nine to three feet up to the town of Clare, nearly seven miles in a direct line, and nine following the channel.

    At Clare the bed of the river is dry at low water, but there is a quay, alongside of which vessels load. Clare is a miserable place, though the shipping port of Ennis. It is a military station.

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  28. #317
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    Just out of interest I tried to find the two ships shown in the video of Clarecastle.

    The older BW vessel is the SS Tourmaline
    https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?144068

    The younger Colour vessel is the MV Quirina
    https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?216309

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  30. #318
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    Similar types of steam puffers did trojan work around the coastal ports up to the introduction of containerisation. A similar vessel lay for many years lay deteriorating north of Cliveden, a restoration project that ran out of enthusiasm and finance.
    I notice the second ship loading an old CIE truck, from back at a time when we had a state owned haulage company that linked ports not connected by rail, to the rail networks.
    Nowadays, Irish rail don't even do parcel freight. 20 years ago this was a vital hub for urgent deliveries.
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  32. #319
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    I was randomly only down at the 'port' in Clarecastle a few weeks ago. I wanted to take a look out of curiosity as I didn't know much about the place.

    Not a whole lot there beyond a short quay. A few men of retirement age were having a fine BBQ though. Not a bad spot of a fine day.

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  34. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Looking at the plan for 1910, there are a few more assets that have gone! Dock side cranes etc.
    Haulbowline_1910.jpg
    Looking at the latest Plans for Cork , we are to have a new Luas unit crossing the Lee from Kent Station to the Docklands by a permanent low level Bridge, This will eliminate accessibility to traditional visiting smaller cruise ships and warships to Cork city. In all of our seaports, plans involving docks should only emanate from Docklands management, with Dept. of marine approval, and advisory input from Naval Authorities and other Port Users.

  35. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Looking at the latest Plans for Cork , we are to have a new Luas unit crossing the Lee from Kent Station to the Docklands by a permanent low level Bridge, This will eliminate accessibility to traditional visiting smaller cruise ships and warships to Cork city. In all of our seaports, plans involving docks should only emanate from Docklands management, with Dept. of marine approval, and advisory input from Naval Authorities and other Port Users.
    Given that the plan was for the Port of Cork area to be converted into a high rise and commercial development, I'd assume the secure berthing area would be gone anyway by the time the Cork Luas ever sees the light of day, though the development might not happen as the Developer has been done for tax fraud in the US.

  36. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Given that the plan was for the Port of Cork area to be converted into a high rise and commercial development, I'd assume the secure berthing area would be gone anyway by the time the Cork Luas ever sees the light of day, though the development might not happen as the Developer has been done for tax fraud in the US.
    While the buildings were going high rise, with a move away from cargo handling, the Quay space was to remain, to focus on the smaller expedition cruise liners that have been visiting. The ones who like to bring you into the heart of the city, and not a Commercial Quayside 40 miles away (Civitavecchia for example. Rome my arse). Port of cork have also recently built a visitor berth, which was becoming popular with yacht owners, who previously had nowhere secure to tie up in the city centre. The Bridge plan would delete the usefulness of this marina. Equally, any plan (and there have been many, all blocked by planning issues) to develop a water taxi in the harbour would be made impossible by this proposed bridge, unless the company used submarines.
    More Dept of "Transport" focusing on road and rail, and forgetting we are an island.
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  37. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    While the buildings were going high rise, with a move away from cargo handling, the Quay space was to remain, to focus on the smaller expedition cruise liners that have been visiting. The ones who like to bring you into the heart of the city, and not a Commercial Quayside 40 miles away (Civitavecchia for example. Rome my arse). Port of cork have also recently built a visitor berth, which was becoming popular with yacht owners, who previously had nowhere secure to tie up in the city centre. The Bridge plan would delete the usefulness of this marina. Equally, any plan (and there have been many, all blocked by planning issues) to develop a water taxi in the harbour would be made impossible by this proposed bridge, unless the company used submarines.
    More Dept of "Transport" focusing on road and rail, and forgetting we are an island.
    Ur just in luck for your submarine taxi service:
    http://submarine4sale.com/

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  39. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Ur just in luck for your submarine taxi service:
    http://submarine4sale.com/
    Went in one with my trusting wife in Barbados. We were visiting friends living there who bought tickets for a "submarine ride to the reefs" as a treat. The dive depth was around 25 metres and all seats were full. Two pilots with full view to the front and v.thick ports at each passenger seat position. Buoyancy was set to be slightly positive and the vessel was taken under by the external fins with electric motor propulsion. If propulsion stops or fails the sub surfaces. I always felt that an observational sub with some work capacity would be useful for the diving section but NOT this one too big.

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