Adequacy of Irish Ports

[ancientmariner]

I can just imagine the reaction of the DUP at the thought of Irish Naval ships being dry docked in Belfast . No, No, and No. Even though it helps the yard economically . They would see it as a Trojan Horse attempt to a United Ireland or a pending invasion .

I will admit there is "Form" such as the fire on ILS Granuaile during a major refit at HW, post a grounding incident at the Maidens Lighthouse. They cleaned up and did a new refurbishment to the ship.
As a young apprentice officer I was on the Irish Rose when we were loading seed potatoes in Belfast. We had our flag in the locker, when the foreman approached and said that the Dockers wouldn't load the ship unless we showed our Nationality. He said " put up your flag". We did each day we were there and we sailed with it flying. That was 1956/7 in Belfast.

[spider]

I can just imagine the reaction of the DUP at the thought of Irish Naval ships being dry docked in Belfast . No, No, and No. Even though it helps the yard economically . They would see it as a Trojan Horse attempt to a United Ireland or a pending invasion .

Ah...you'd be wrong there...

The yard is currently owned by a Norwegian firm, Fred Olsen Energy, not the DUP.

They dry dock and repair ships from all over the world...including Irish ships...

https://www.niferry.co.uk/irish-ferr...rther-delayed/

[spider]

I will admit there is "Form" such as the fire on ILS Granuaile during a major refit at HW, post a grounding incident at the Maidens Lighthouse. They cleaned up and did a new refurbishment to the ship.
As a young apprentice officer I was on the Irish Rose when we were loading seed potatoes in Belfast. We had our flag in the locker, when the foreman approached and said that the Dockers wouldn't load the ship unless we showed our Nationality. He said " put up your flag". We did each day we were there and we sailed with it flying. That was 1956/7 in Belfast.

I'm in Belfast quite a bit...use the ferries a lot...and I often see ships flying the Irish flag...a good example being the above-mentioned ILS Granuaile...a frequent visitor.

I've also seen Irish Navy warships berthed beside Royal Navy warships and open to the public in both Belfast and Londonderry.

Oddly enough they were flying their national flag... and I don't think anyone was too bothered...given that it was an Irish ship.

It would be a bit strange if they hadn't flown their flag.

I also really had hoped that no-one would bring this sh#t up on a thread which is after all about Irish ports...I did hesitate to post that bit about H&W for that reason...but it seems some people (see #75) can't help themselves.

Says a lot really.

[Laners]

It was just a bit of humour nothing else , lighten up there .

[sofa]

I will admit there is "Form" such as the fire on ILS Granuaile during a major refit at HW, post a grounding incident at the Maidens Lighthouse. They cleaned up and did a new refurbishment to the ship.
As a young apprentice officer I was on the Irish Rose when we were loading seed potatoes in Belfast. We had our flag in the locker, when the foreman approached and said that the Dockers wouldn't load the ship unless we showed our Nationality. He said " put up your flag". We did each day we were there and we sailed with it flying. That was 1956/7 in Belfast.

Catholics controlled the docks if I remember.

[ancientmariner]

It was just a bit of humour nothing else , lighten up there .

Free use of ports and all facilities is key to Trade and Commerce. Entry and exit from Key ports to Markets is also crucial for free flow of Commerce. There were some interesting moves Pre-Brexit involving " IRISH " companies. Irish Ferries killed off their use of Rosslare Harbour much to the dismay of the IRISH Haulage Association who regard the same port as critical to Markets.
UK interests cornered all our freight capacity by block chartering, through 3rd Party, ARKLOW SHIPPING. You can imagine at Brexit-no ships-no Rosslare-no Belfast. This morning on the News the Pre-Chartering attempt was stood down as ARKLOW SHIPPING withdrew. For God's sake do we have any idea how to get our duck's in a row. We should have an all island Task Force to ensure prioritisation of transport assets even by a pro-temp emergency Order.

[na grohmiti]

I'm surprised we had not heard of Arklows involvement before now.
It is very short sighted that even though we have a state of the art facility to train both Irish and foreign seafarers, we have no Irish based ferry operators. Irish ferries gave up being irish some years ago, and I believe would rename to "British Isles Ferries" should it suit their bottom line. They abandoned their Irish crew, flag and port of registry long ago. They only continue to serve irish routes because it is still profitable. Their suggestion that they Could drop Rosslare to France should be seen as a warning to government, who should be working hard to secure an alternative provider.

[ancientmariner]

I'm surprised we had not heard of Arklows involvement before now.
It is very short sighted that even though we have a state of the art facility to train both Irish and foreign seafarers, we have no Irish based ferry operators. Irish ferries gave up being irish some years ago, and I believe would rename to "British Isles Ferries" should it suit their bottom line. They abandoned their Irish crew, flag and port of registry long ago. They only continue to serve irish routes because it is still profitable. Their suggestion that they Could drop Rosslare to France should be seen as a warning to government, who should be working hard to secure an alternative provider.

Indeed, indeed. I now think it is/was a strategic attempt or demonstration to show that we are helpless in the provision of our own means of transport. We have NO Golden shares, we have NO ships, we goosed ALL our carriers and disbanded sole ministries putting ships and shipping out of sight. It has demonstrated that our neighbours could do what one of their polititians proposed about creating a food shortage here!!

[Sparky42]

In terms of Irish Ferries, I'd say there are a few different reasons for their decision, the screw up last year must have hurt their budget line even if it was the Yard that screwed up, so they might need to make the money back quicker and they will do that from Dublin, there's also the issue of if we keep "no border" then the ports are going to be the main points, and only Dublin has the BIP, Rosslare doesn't so that may also impact the decision.

As for Arklow and the Pizza delivery company, do they even have any Ro-Ro's chartered? And will that local council cut funding to Ramsgate? Will the French ports accept the ferries? To be honest that entire contract screams of a Tory backhander to some interest group rather than an actual going concern.

[Laners]

In terms of Irish Ferries, I'd say there are a few different reasons for their decision, the screw up last year must have hurt their budget line even if it was the Yard that screwed up, so they might need to make the money back quicker and they will do that from Dublin, there's also the issue of if we keep "no border" then the ports are going to be the main points, and only Dublin has the BIP, Rosslare doesn't so that may also impact the decision.

As for Arklow and the Pizza delivery company, do they even have any Ro-Ro's chartered? And will that local council cut funding to Ramsgate? Will the French ports accept the ferries? To be honest that entire contract screams of a Tory backhander to some interest group rather than an actual going concern.

It was to be Ramsgate to Ostend in Belguim so no French unions to worry about . Anyway the Mayor of Ostend said that they would not be prepared to fork out any money of their own for the ports upgrades .

[ancientmariner]

It was to be Ramsgate to Ostend in Belguim so no French unions to worry about . Anyway the Mayor of Ostend said that they would not be prepared to fork out any money of their own for the ports upgrades .

The point I'm making is the need for emergency Legislation, available at times of need , under a Shipping Control scheme , that provides "Bottoms" , Ports , and maintenance facilities for National well being. If everything stood Arklow would be on contract and we would have NO ships to Control.

[ancientmariner]

The point I'm making is the need for emergency Legislation, available at times of need , under a Shipping Control scheme , that provides "Bottoms" , Ports , and maintenance facilities for National well being. If everything stood Arklow would be on contract and we would have NO ships to Control.

If one reads " Rosslare and Kilcrane area development Plan" you can see our National problem of being Sea Blind. It covers everything from Rail, Road, Housing, restaurants, flora , fauna, light industry, but nothing about developing Port suitability or infrastructure needed for modern ports, such as cargo handling, weather safe harbour, disposal of ship generated waste and liquids, ship repair etc. etc..

[na grohmiti]

Port of Cork company had quite a fight to convince local government that they needed the basic fundamentals of Port equipment. If they did not live in a sea friendly area it would have been a hard fight to allow ships to dock, be loaded and unloaded and have all the other attended services outside a 9-5 operation. Some natives were quite opposed to this happening. People move to a community for the sea views but are still very sea blind.

[EUFighter]

Port of Cork company had quite a fight to convince local government that they needed the basic fundamentals of Port equipment. If they did not live in a sea friendly area it would have been a hard fight to allow ships to dock, be loaded and unloaded and have all the other attended services outside a 9-5 operation. Some natives were quite opposed to this happening. People move to a community for the sea views but are still very sea blind.

It is not just confined to "sea blindness", it is a general ignorance of all things that make it easy to have a comfortable life with great sea views!
Ask the majority of people where does electrical power come from and the answer will be "somewhere in the wall".

We are an island nation that is land locked

[Laners]

I had a discussion in work one day in relation to water chargers , those opposed to them argued that it should be free because it just fell from the sky , i put it to them that if that was their argument then natural gas should be free as well due to it coming out of a hole in the ground at the bottom of the sea . None of them could fathom how it arrived at their homes ( or didn't want to know ) .

[Sparky42]

I had a discussion in work one day in relation to water chargers , those opposed to them argued that it should be free because it just fell from the sky , i put it to them that if that was their argument then natural gas should be free as well due to it coming out of a hole in the ground at the bottom of the sea . None of them could fathom how it arrived at their homes ( or didn't want to know ) .

Same for electricity and sewage and pretty much all the other services, there's no attempt to understand the scale and costs of the infrastructure needed for such services.

[ancientmariner]

Same for electricity and sewage and pretty much all the other services, there's no attempt to understand the scale and costs of the infrastructure needed for such services.

Scaling is very apt for ports as charges evolve around tonnage to determine pilotage and port usage. Dublin Port company is having second thoughts on creating a dedicated Cruising base as such ships are planned to reach only a figure of 150 ships as against 8000 cargo ships.
However 150 cruise liners would create a tonnage of 7.5m plus 375,000 passengers and crew, 8000 cargo vessels ( assuming 3000t average) creates 24m tonnage , only 3 times the cruise tonnage , but very little spending power with few passengers if any for shops and tours.
If they change their mind it is a double whammy to the intended cruising from Ireland this year ( Dublin and Cobh ) and the loss of the Drydock and ship repair as already planned. There needs to be a National Plan and direct Control of "on and off" Island Transport and it's infrastructure.

[Sparky42]

In terms of Dublin reviewing it's Cruise Terminal, it might help Cobh's plan for a second terminal, though how that will work for traffic flow in Cobh is another question.

[na grohmiti]

There is plenty of room for two terminals, once you accept that one ship will be smaller than the other. Port of cork frequently sees three cruise liners visit at once. One goes to Cobh, One Ringaskiddy and the smaller to the city quays when possible. The Redevelopment of Tivoli Docks as a residential area could see a fourth cruise liner berth within the Port of Cork area of operating.

[Sparky42]

There is plenty of room for two terminals, once you accept that one ship will be smaller than the other. Port of cork frequently sees three cruise liners visit at once. One goes to Cobh, One Ringaskiddy and the smaller to the city quays when possible. The Redevelopment of Tivoli Docks as a residential area could see a fourth cruise liner berth within the Port of Cork area of operating.

I'm not talking about the entire port, I'm talking about another terminal in Cobh itself down by Lynch's Quay, getting 52 seater buses there is going to be "interesting"

[na grohmiti]

I'm not talking about the entire port, I'm talking about another terminal in Cobh itself down by Lynch's Quay, getting 52 seater buses there is going to be "interesting"

There????? Madness!
You only have 50m of "quay" by the old town hall/chinese. You could expand that into the channel I suppose, there is still lots of room there, but the 12kn tidal current there could make things interesting when berthing.
The dole office will make a great visitor info centre....

[Sparky42]

There????? Madness!
You only have 50m of "quay" by the old town hall/chinese. You could expand that into the channel I suppose, there is still lots of room there, but the 12kn tidal current there could make things interesting when berthing.
The dole office will make a great visitor info centre....

I agree, hence why I said it would be "interesting" in the "holy shite" way. But yeah that's the reported plan for about 20 million:

The Port of Cork recently engaged with Price Waterhouse to seek expressions of interest from the private sector to develop and/or operate a new cruise berth at Lynch’s Quay in Cobh.

“Already we’re encouraged by the level of interest,” Mr Keating said. “We’d hope to see it constructed in the next five to six years. We are planning ahead and it will enhance our ability to cater for the biggest ships in the world.”

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...rk-893934.html

[na grohmiti]

Build a jetty out from the chinese, make it big enough to accomodate all the buses. I think 30 is normal at a time for the deepwater. With all due respect to Port of Cork, I don't see them getting a foreshore licence.

[ancientmariner]

Build a jetty out from the chinese, make it big enough to accomodate all the buses. I think 30 is normal at a time for the deepwater. With all due respect to Port of Cork, I don't see them getting a foreshore licence.

Whatever ensues any new pier will need to comply with International recommendations to minimise greenhouses gases. The major requirement is shore power already available throughout Europe and the USA. We need to consider up to 100.000kilowatts. We also need some pump out facilities for poop and grey water, and supply fresh water/ FF water on hydrants. The latter needs connection into ship system when she is on shore power-maybe no pumps runnable.

[Flamingo]

Whatever ensues any new pier will need to comply with International recommendations to minimise greenhouses gases. The major requirement is shore power already available throughout Europe and the USA. We need to consider up to 100.000kilowatts. We also need some pump out facilities for poop and grey water, and supply fresh water/ FF water on hydrants. The latter needs connection into ship system when she is on shore power-maybe no pumps runnable.

So there is a bit more to it than just providing a gangway and a couple of bloody big bollards then?