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Last Commissioning had to be held in the DFTC Chapel because the Gym was too small for the numbers.
The Castle in a much better location size wise and also has the value added of being in the public eye.Especially relevant when you consider the week the DF has had after that muppet Fennelly."Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
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Originally posted by na grohmitÃ* View Posthttps://www.thejournal.ie/new-cadets...76932-Feb2019/
Good to see the minister for defence showed up. (non capital letters deliberate)."Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
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Originally posted by apod View PostI would go one step further and say that the President should be the Guest of Honour and Present the scrolls.It IS a Presidential Commission after all and it would lay down a symbolic marker that the new Officers swear their oath to the Constitution and the people and NOT the Government which IMHO is embodied by the Minister.
For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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I see a young fella in the front row from Clonmel , previously served with 12bn as enlisted went for Cadetship and did well,....off to the 1st Cav in Cork.
Will be a excellent officer.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by apod View PostLast Commissioning had to be held in the DFTC Chapel because the Gym was too small for the numbers.
The Castle in a much better location size wise and also has the value added of being in the public eye.Especially relevant when you consider the week the DF has had after that muppet Fennelly.
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostI see a young fella in the front row from Clonmel , previously served with 12bn as enlisted went for Cadetship and did well,....off to the 1st Cav in Cork.
Will be a excellent officer.
Unfortunately its pretty commonly accepted that the overall standard of the last 3/4 classes has been dreadful for various reasons. The lack of competition in applicants, the historically large classes and the "touchy feely" nature the cadet school has adopted in recent years.Last edited by Chuck; 8 February 2019, 16:07.
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Originally posted by Chuck View PostBe under no illusion, receiving a commission is no metric of success or ability. Just the same as having prior service is no guarantee of being a good officer.
Unfortunately its pretty commonly accepted that the overall standard of the last 3/4 classes has been dreadful for various reasons. The lack of competition in applicants, the historically large classes and the "touchy feely" nature the cadet school has adopted in recent years.
In recent years because of high turnover numbers through natural wastage only those without the ambition and drive and motivation to do the job againts the odds have stayed. I reckon any guy who takes a pay cut to go through the cadet school for 18 months and then go through the physical and mental shit, go back to the end of the food chain has a half arsed chance of becoming a reasonable officer if he is teamed up with the right mentors and digs in and gets on with the job. Its a bit like the Gardai where the 19 years old spotty 500 point leaving cert guy is no longer the ideal candidate. Maturity will win through. A twenty something guy with some decent time behind him is where the DF will find its new leaders.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostThis guy will be good! I've been around a long time and know what it takes . He didn't go for a commission for the craic.
In recent years because of high turnover numbers through natural wastage only those without the ambition and drive and motivation to do the job againts the odds have stayed. I reckon any guy who takes a pay cut to go through the cadet school for 18 months and then go through the physical and mental shit, go back to the end of the food chain has a half arsed chance of becoming a reasonable officer if he is teamed up with the right mentors and digs in and gets on with the job. Its a bit like the Gardai where the 19 years old spotty 500 point leaving cert guy is no longer the ideal candidate. Maturity will win through. A twenty something guy with some decent time behind him is where the DF will find its new leaders.
Unfortunately, as we are all aware, with the economy growing and a plentiful supply of private sector jobs, many of those who have the intelligence, capability, drive and personal ambition will leave for greener pastures.
Those who remain on largely fall into one of two categories.
1. Those who always had a career horn and will do all it takes to get as high up the food chain as possible. For those individuals, the higher they go, the less it becomes about the organisation and the more it becomes about them. There are exceptions, but they are most definitely the exception.
2. Those who lack the ability, ambition, drive etc to work a private sector job. There are very few things that will earn you a p45 in the DF, very few. For a lot of people, the DF is a cushy job. Plenty of 'local arrangements', a completely broken performance appraisal system which counts for SFA if you happen to know the interview board for promotion. An officer joining at 22/23 now can realistically expect to make Lt Col at a minimum provided they simply do the time. Plenty of people happy to 'mark time' rather than tackle a more challenging private sector job.
Neither of these two groups are good for a variety of reasons which don't need to be explained.
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostI reckon any guy who takes a pay cut to go through the cadet school for 18 months.
It was also a spotty leaving cert student who was the senior cadet captain and won best overall cadet.
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Originally posted by Chuck View PostThose who lack the ability, ambition, drive etc to work a private sector job. Plenty of people happy to 'mark time' rather than tackle a more challenging private sector job.
The vast majority of people in the private sector face the same levels of repetition, boredom and lack of advancement that soldiers can face.
Most of the people in what you call "challenging" private sector jobs probably gravitate towards them because they like a challenge, etc. In much the same way people join the military for a challenge, "a life less ordinary" or variety. And of those the higher performers gravitate towards further challenges in command, special forces, niche specialties, etc. Not so different to private sector.An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain
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Originally posted by X-RayOne View PostA fairly dis-ingenuous generalisation there Chuck. There's very few private sector jobs that are "challenging" in any way other than whatever artificial stressors are applied to staff, eg. financial targets, time pressures, etc.
The vast majority of people in the private sector face the same levels of repetition, boredom and lack of advancement that soldiers can face.
Most of the people in what you call "challenging" private sector jobs probably gravitate towards them because they like a challenge, etc. In much the same way people join the military for a challenge, "a life less ordinary" or variety. And of those the higher performers gravitate towards further challenges in command, special forces, niche specialties, etc. Not so different to private sector.
The point I was attempting to make was that there are plenty, across all ranks, who lack ambition and this lack of ambition is fueled by virtue of the fact that it is almost impossible to be discharged.
For those people, the challenge in a private sector job is that it is likely that unless you perform to the desired standard, you may lose your job. Not so with the DF. You may get a poor performance appraisal but you'll still get your wages into the bank every week which is what puts food on the table.
I'm not sure how you can label targets as "artificial stressors". They are not artificial as they form a key function in how and entity is run.
Your post comes across as a bit of an apologist to be honest. Yes, there will be those who will push to better themselves but they are in the minority. Most are happy to mark time, in my own experience. Historically there has always been a good proportion of people who join the DF purely for a secure income. They certainly outweigh those who join "for a life less ordinary".
@jack08 - Im not sure if your comment is directed at my post but if you were to ask anyone who has been involved with Cadet training and selection over the past 15-20 years they will tell you their is a stark difference in the quality of the end product. We are now in prime millennial era and it shows. Comfort blankets anyone?Last edited by Chuck; 12 February 2019, 19:45.
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