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  1. #76
    Recruit Poiuyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    When you say "have to be there"... I've told you what the law is re executive power of the Governent over the DF in the quote above, now you tell me what law says you have to be present in the Dail at that time and hour.
    Been reading up on my Law - Dáil Standing Orders. Returning Officer returns the writs to the Dáil Clerk who notified members that their presence is required. A elected official is not deemed a TD until he or she has signed the roll of members in the presence of the Clerk on the commencement of the Dáil subsequent to a General Election.
    In the case of the meeting on 20 Feb 2020, the President was the one who send the notification - a copy of which is below.

    Pursuant to an advice tendered to me by the Taoiseach under section 2 of Article 13 of the Constitution, I, MICHAEL D. HIGGINS, President of Ireland, hereby dissolve Dáil Éireann on the 14th day of January, 2020, and summon and call together Dáil Éireann (the members whereof shall have been elected at the forthcoming General Election) to meet in the city of Dublin on the 20th day of February, 2020, at the hour of 12 noon for the despatch of such business as shall be submitted to it.
    GIVEN UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL THIS 14th DAY OF JANUARY 2020.
    Micheál D. Ó hUigínn
    Uachtarán na hÉireann
    (President of Ireland)
    Leo Varadkar
    Taoiseach
    There is a lot more to go through but I am pushed on time today....are you sure you want me to go on???

  2. #77
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    To you or me it might not seem important but to the organisation who first spent months of negotiating and planning with the President's office to fix a date it probably was,
    I guess it all about Priorities really isn't it? As evidenced by this and the recent cancelation of the Merrion square Ceremonial in favor of a celebrity funeral which the President attended. I suppose the President just sees the artistic community more important than those who take on an unlimited liability to guarantee these people the freedom to play music,paint pictures and compose poems and live off grants. Yup. Priorities straight there.

    also as for the UN delegation, Ireland is looking to join the UN Security Council, palming them off to a civil servant is not going to win them any votes.
    And the Government have been happy enough to trot out the DF and sign us up to things to make them look good IOT achieve this goal. A quantum of respect in return was not too much to expect. And you ignored my first suggested action before suggesting sending a Departmental secretary.

    RESCHEDULE!!!
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    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  4. #78
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    A elected official is not deemed a TD until he or she has signed the roll of members in the presence of the Clerk
    Dail Standing orders are not law.

    However, they can sign the Roll at any time prior to taking their seat.

    No excuse for not attending a commission, there is zero requirement for them to attend the Dail at that time and hour.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  5. #79
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    I am too annoyed that there was no suitable government representative at the commissioning, Trelheim. However unlike you I am pointing the finger of blame towards the green, this was very much in the control of the DF to re-schedule.

  6. #80
    BQMS Auldsod's Avatar
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    Problem with a rescheduling is that this could impact the travel plans and bookings of friends and families attending the event. There are moving parts outside of DF control other than the Minister or suitable goverment representative.

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  8. #81
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I would assume that scheduling the Minister is within DoD’s remit. Not sure who would be responsible for scheduling an alternative (Cabinet, DoD, Dept of Taoiseach...?)

  9. #82
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    Problem with a rescheduling is that this could impact the travel plans and bookings of friends and families attending the event. There are moving parts outside of DF control other than the Minister or suitable goverment representative.
    Yes there is that, not that that has stopped them before. Also there are Maltese cadets invovled and their families.

    An option nobody seems to have considered is sending one of the Ministers that lost their seat i.e. Regina Doherty, Shane Ross or Katherine Zappone. They are still government ministers but are not required in the Dail.

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  11. #83
    BQMS Auldsod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    Yes there is that, not that that has stopped them before. Also there are Maltese cadets invovled and their families.

    An option nobody seems to have considered is sending one of the Ministers that lost their seat i.e. Regina Doherty, Shane Ross or Katherine Zappone. They are still government ministers but are not required in the Dail.
    Possibly the most sensible option in my book. Wouldn't have taken too much thought either.

    Shane Ross would have reveled in the pagentry of it all!

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  13. #84
    Recruit Poiuyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    No excuse for not attending a commission, there is zero requirement for them to attend the Dail at that time and hour.
    It would be handy if you actually read my posts - this is the 2nd one you didn't. I have now underlined my point.

    Pursuant to an advice tendered to me by the Taoiseach under section 2 of Article 13 of the Constitution, I, MICHAEL D. HIGGINS, President of Ireland, hereby dissolve Dáil Éireann on the 14th day of January, 2020, and summon and call together Dáil Éireann (the members whereof shall have been elected at the forthcoming General Election) to meet in the city of Dublin on the 20th day of February, 2020, at the hour of 12 noon for the despatch of such business as shall be submitted to it.
    GIVEN UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL THIS 14th DAY OF JANUARY 2020.
    Micheál D. Ó hUigínn
    Uachtarán na hÉireann
    (President of Ireland)
    Leo Varadkar
    Taoiseach
    Last edited by Poiuyt; 26th February 2020 at 15:11.

  14. #85
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    What time was the commissioning held?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  15. #86
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    It would be handy if you actually read my posts - this is the 2nd one you didn't. I have now underlined my point.
    No, I read your post. I asked you to quote the law - and you haven't. You've posted the proforma proclamation of dissolution which is a proclamation and not a law. That calls together the new Dail after the dissolution and is not a compulsion in law to attend. The one and only requirement to be able to represent your constituency and take your seat in Dail Eireann as a newly elected TD is to sign the register. That's it - nothing more. You can sign the register at any time.


    If we are further quoting posts you said "that's not how it works". When I quoted the Act showing you that was exactly how it works you said "but that is not got anything to do with what I said." . Based on you saying that the Government cant tell the DF what to do , when in fact they are the only people who can tell it what to do, that has everything to do with what you said.

    The facts remain

    1. The Government could have ordered the DF to move it. They did not ( or give a fk)
    2. A Minister could have turned up. They did not (or give a fk).
    3. Even if they had turned up they could have walked back to the Dail in 15 mins to be back in for the vote. ( did not give a fk )
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

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  17. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    What time was the commissioning held?
    Ceremony started at 1400
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  18. #88
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    No sign of the speech on defence.ie

    But the Slandail one is

  19. #89
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Trelheim, it is also fair to say the DF could have moved the ceremony, but they didn't, so maybe they don't give a **** either?

  20. #90
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    In fairness, the cadets, families or training cadre probably wouldn't be bothered if there was no Gov Rep at it.
    One less bit of faffing needed to please a Minister who wouldn't know what extra was done for them or the amount of effort that it involved, on top of the important stuff, that must be done.
    The presence or absence of a politician never improved the sense of pride or achievement of personnel at any pass out. That comes from their own efforts and dedication.
    Fair play to them all regardless!!
    Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

    And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

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  22. #91
    BQMS Auldsod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    In fairness, the cadets, families or training cadre probably wouldn't be bothered if there was no Gov Rep at it.
    One less bit of faffing needed to please a Minister who wouldn't know what extra was done for them or the amount of effort that it involved, on top of the important stuff, that must be done.
    The presence or absence of a politician never improved the sense of pride or achievement of personnel at any pass out. That comes from their own efforts and dedication.
    Fair play to them all regardless!!
    Couldn't agree more. I can accept the arguments as to whether or not the government should have should sent a representative, elected or not.

    However, I for one would much rather have my parents, wife, girlfriend able to attend such an important occasion rather than Minister Kehoe. I would have been quite annoyed as a Cadet if even one member of my family couldn't attend so as to facilitate a Minister's calendar.

    Furthermore, the political situation is fluid. Who's to say there would have been availability on a rearranged date. The DF isn't to blame here and put on a fantastic ceremony despite the Minister's non attendence.

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