Cadet Commissioning

[trellheim]

If the commissioning had to happen yesterday then a senator should have attended. The Seanad is still in place. However the DF should have moved it a day. They had 5 weeks notice that it would clash with the return of the Dail which would have been ample time to change the date. It is not as if they haven't done it before.

The D.o.D had every opportunity to tell them to move it a day.

[Bravo20]

This is an event that is within DF control. You can't blame the DOD on everything, they can be blamed for a lot but not everything.

[trellheim]

The Government were perfectly able if they wanted, to tell the DF to move it a day. That they did not even bother their hole to do that tells you what you need to know. Or see Flamingo's comment - same thing.


Sorry I am absolutely raging here. My own FCA commissioning had the Minister for Defence, in Dublin.

[hptmurphy]

Given the contempt the recent governments have shown toward the DF I'm not in the least bit surprised there was no government representation there.

TBH in light of that contempt i think its better that they actually stayed away but I would have like to see the President there.

[Flamingo]

Anyway! I'm sure the new officers are delighted to gain their commissions, and the presence or absence of a random vote-chaser made very little difference to their pride in their achievement. That's not why they worked to get it.

At least it was one less speach to learn sten to.

[DeV]

Anyway! I'm sure the new officers are delighted to gain their commissions, and the presence or absence of a random vote-chaser made very little difference to their pride in their achievement. That's not why they worked to get it.

At least it was one less speach to learn sten to.

Minister’s speech was delivered by a civil servant

[Captain Edmund Blackadder]

It was nice to have the person who writes the speeches and makes all the decisions get a chance to address the troops at last.

[apod]

Given the contempt the recent governments have shown toward the DF I'm not in the least bit surprised there was no government representation there.

TBH in light of that contempt i think its better that they actually stayed away but I would have like to see the President there.

Actually if you think of it he/she should be there every time. They are Presidential commissions on behalf of the Irish People,not ministerial warrants.

[Poiuyt]

Well thats your view. Politics is politics. There was never going to be a Taoiseach elected - you know this. A pair would have been given - you know this.......

The Government were perfectly able if they wanted, to tell the DF to move it a day. That they did not even bother their hole to do that tells you what you need to know.

Taoiseach not being elected makes no difference, you have to be there. And I am assuming that by a "Pair", you mean TDs? What pair? There is not Government Party, there is no Opposition....there is no "Pair"....YOU KNOW THIS.......

And I can guarantee you that the Minister of States Private Secretary did tell the DoD that they were not available, and they told the DF. It takes about 5 minutes for an official to establish when a Minister could possibly be available. Confirmation takes much longer but the DoD would have known weeks ago that the Minister of State would not be there that day. And the DF would also have known. It isn't the Minister of States Private Secretarys job to tell the DF to move a date, he would merely tell them what day he was available. The Minister of State probably didn't even get to hear about it.

"The Government were perfectly able if they wanted, to tell the DF to move it a day" - No, they are not. That is not how it works. What you should be saying is that "the DF were perfectly able if they wanted, to move it a day". You seem to have misunderstanding of how these things work. The fact that the Sec Gen of the Department was there implies that somewhere along the line, someone couldn't be bothered to check if someone else was available, and it wasn't on the Government side. Personally I would have checked to see if the President himself was available.

So, think about it. It would have taken a bit more work on the part of the organisers (DoD/DF) to ensure that the Minister of State, or a Senator or the President could have been there. But it would have taken a "bit" more work or may have required moving it to Friday.
Someone, somewhere along the line, said "F&^% this for a game of soldiers" and just went with the handy option - the Sec Gen. And no one wanted to have it on the Friday because they all wanted "out the gap" early on the Friday. You know exactly what people are like.

The blame does not lie with the Minister of State on this. I don't like the man but he was not to fault for this one. If you are raging over this, direct your rage elsewhere.

[CTU]

The President had 2 public events scheduled on the 20th in Dublin. One at 11:00 and the other at 14:30.

https://president.ie/en/diary/past-engagements

[trellheim]

"The Government were perfectly able if they wanted, to tell the DF to move it a day" - No, they are not. That is not how it works.

Sorry - thats exactly how it works.

Article 17.1 of the Defence Act

17.—(1) Under the direction of the President, and subject to the provisions of this
Act, the military command of, and all executive and administrative powers in relation
to, the Defence Forces, including the power to delegate command and authority, shall
be exercisable by the Government and, subject to such exceptions and limitations as
the Government may from time to time determine, through and by the Minister.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1954/act/18/section/17/enacted/en/html#sec17

Get up the yard. There is no excuse for missing a commissioning.

When you say "have to be there"... I've told you what the law is re executive power of the Governent over the DF in the quote above, now you tell me what law says you have to be present in the Dail at that time and hour.

[apod]

The President had 2 public events scheduled on the 20th in Dublin. One at 11:00 and the other at 14:30.

https://president.ie/en/diary/past-engagements

Are you seriously going to tell that attending the opening of a visitor centre was more important than the issuing of Commissions that he signed to the men and women that he has charged to lead the nations troops?? As for the UN meeting. Reschedule or send a High ranking Civil servant.

[apod]

MOD: Thread Re-opened after MOD discussion. Let's keep things civil folks.

[Poiuyt]

Sorry - thats exactly how it works.

Article 17.1 of the Defence Act

And I agree with you on that....but that is not got anything to do with what I said.

Get up the yard. There is no excuse for missing a commissioning.

When you say "have to be there"... I've told you what the law is re executive power of the Governent over the DF in the quote above, now you tell me what law says you have to be present in the Dail at that time and hour.

Pretty sure there are a heap of laws....and expectations. I'll get back to you on this.
Plenty of excuses to miss a commissioning, and opening of a new Dáil is definately one of them.

[CTU]

Are you seriously going to tell that attending the opening of a visitor centre was more important than the issuing of Commissions that he signed to the men and women that he has charged to lead the nations troops?? As for the UN meeting. Reschedule or send a High ranking Civil servant.

To you or me it might not seem important but to the organisation who first spent months of negotiating and planning with the President's office to fix a date it probably was, also as for the UN delegation, Ireland is looking to join the UN Security Council, palming them off to a civil servant is not going to win them any votes.

Do I agree with the ministerial snub, hell no. Do I think that the President should attend these functions, yes I do, I am sure the President could attend the three Commissioning ceremonies a year.