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  1. #76
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I know little of the site but Looking at IPhone maps, car park and square that could be relocated to the ISPAT site (giving that there is little that you can do with it). An option?

    Does the State own the NMCI site?

  2. #77
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    How does the Accomodiation on Eithne over the P50s? 2/4 to a cabin ?

  3. #78
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    There is a derelict building / site next to the church , been like that since my time , how come it has never been developed into something useful .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  5. #79
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    There is the building that just burnt down plenty of space to build that up again , and so on.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  6. #80
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    There is a derelict building / site next to the church , been like that since my time , how come it has never been developed into something useful .
    Let me guess , it's a protected ruin .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  8. #81
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    That might be the water tank, The top half was a marine barracks I think, before the roof burnt down. Yeah, it's protected. Also I'd stay well away from anything within the old ISPAT site until it's been properly cleaned up, and not by DoD.

    Eithne's accom is only of a slightly lower standard than that on the P50s. Originally designed to accomodate its crew, aircrew and a command element. Some of the original Air Corps accom has been repurposed.
    The NMCI site is a public private partnership, and for the most part is now full. The land was once DoD property.
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  9. #82
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    That might be the water tank, The top half was a marine barracks I think, before the roof burnt down. Yeah, it's protected. Also I'd stay well away from anything within the old ISPAT site until it's been properly cleaned up, and not by DoD.

    Eithne's accom is only of a slightly lower standard than that on the P50s. Originally designed to accomodate its crew, aircrew and a command element. Some of the original Air Corps accom has been repurposed.
    The NMCI site is a public private partnership, and for the most part is now full. The land was once DoD property.
    I wouldn’t put a dog kennel on the ISPAT site... 10-15 years time it will come back in court


    Of course I’d say that’s exactly what DoD plan to do
    Last edited by DeV; 4th June 2019 at 07:12.

  10. #83
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    It's done in other Navies. HMS Bristol was an accomodation ship for many years. It's an immediate, if temporary solution in the absence of any identified site, or actual buildings suitable to be used immediately for accomodation, don't you think? The ship will be alongside until her future is decided in any event. Can NS vessels plug into 220 V shore supply?
    Very easy for the DoD to say today "we have plans to spend €9m on housing in the naval base" when unless I'm mistaken there is no room to build new accomodation on the island (that which is not still contaminated, at least), then let the plan languish for years while this moment of newsworthyness passes.
    By the time it eventually happens,(if it does) those who needed the accomodation today are long gone from the service.
    There is scarce supply of rental accom in Ringaskiddy that NMCI has not already cornered. Price of property in Carrigaline has gone nuts. Back Passage is Shinner central, no NS man or woman in their right mind should feel safe living there.
    So where is the O/Sea, O/Tel or O/Mech expected to live for those months of the year when they are not at sea?
    A building has been earmarked for a number of years for this project. What was missing was the the money!.

    This project should begin this year once the DOD release the money to the DF.

    BTW, no such thing as an O/Tel for the last 20 years. O/Commop is the correct term. (Tel's & Sig's combined)

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  12. #84
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    A building has been earmarked for a number of years for this project. What was missing was the the money!.
    Was this the same money DoD kept handing back each year
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

  13. #85
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    Was this the same money DoD kept handing back each year
    Let’s look at that
    Most recent I can find is YE 31 Dec 2017
    https://www.defence.ie/system/files/...36-defence.pdf (see page 15 & 16)

    €21.37m returned to the exchequer (down approx €5.2m from previous year)

  14. #86
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    Be careful of “lies, dame lies and statics “.

    If you look at page 6 you will see that the Appropriation in Aids (income from banks, UN etc) was €10m over estimate which means that on the expenditure there was only €11m out of a budget of €691 returned to the exchequer. This represents only 1.6% of what was available to spend.

    In looking at pages 15/16 it is clear that many of the areas of expenditure that are under the total control of the military (A10, A12) had the biggest shortfall. So many the DF need to share some of the blame.

  15. #87
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Firstly the DOD is in total control of expenditure. It also has the authority to allocate underspends in one sub-head to other sub-heads as required. Whether or not the surplus returned to the Exchequer is made up of savings on expenditure or an increase in income it is still represents an overall underspend of the budget. I have gone back to 2013 and between 2013 and 2017 and in those 5 years 95million has been returned to the Exchequer. This is after allocating some of the underspend to finance the ships. In 2016 and 2015 PDF pay was underestimated by 30 and 25 million respectively. I note in 2017 they stopped commenting on that variance.

    I also note that the receipts from UN has been consistently underestimated (2017: 10m, 2016: 8m, 2015: 6m, 2014: 3m) which says a lot about their budgetary process.

    What the many DF commentators are saying is what could have been done with those savings instead of it being returned to the Exchequer to feed the black hole of the HSE.

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  17. #88
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    regardless of the creative accounting process there shouldn't be a penny being returned to the exchequer any year.

    it's a well known truth (myth, whatever you want call it.....)in any public service area if you do a job without spending the entire budget, paymasters automatically believe you can do it with less next time and budget accordingly

    the only way you get more is if you run out of money during the year....a la the HSE
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

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  19. #89
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    the only way you get more is if you run out of money during the year....a la the HSE
    On that exact topic who will bet that the new DG will ask for a supplementary budget ? He's promised not to but time will tell.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  20. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    On that exact topic who will bet that the new DG will ask for a supplementary budget ? He's promised not to but time will tell.
    He'll have no choice, the alternative would be cutting services at the end of the budget cycle and politically more unacceptable than a supplementary budget particularly with an election hovering in the background.

  21. #91
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    there's no shortage of money going to Health and HSE. Our budget is comparable to many larger EU states and percentage of GDP one of the highest.

    the problem is the lack of accountability, multiple duplicated layers of management, redundant positions, out of date clinical practices....the list goes one.

    the only way to fix it is massive overhaul of clinical focus, integrated IT, records, payroll, etc, mass redundancies and contract changes. all of which nobody has the interest or balls to take on!
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

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  23. #92
    Sergeant Major EUFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    there's no shortage of money going to Health and HSE. Our budget is comparable to many larger EU states and percentage of GDP one of the highest.

    the problem is the lack of accountability, multiple duplicated layers of management, redundant positions, out of date clinical practices....the list goes one.

    the only way to fix it is massive overhaul of clinical focus, integrated IT, records, payroll, etc, mass redundancies and contract changes. all of which nobody has the interest or balls to take on!
    In relation to the EU28 rankings from high to low we are:
    25th for Government Budget as % of GDP
    28th for Defence Budget as % of GDP
    26th for Defence Budget as % of Government Budget

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  25. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    there's no shortage of money going to Health and HSE. Our budget is comparable to many larger EU states and percentage of GDP one of the highest.

    the problem is the lack of accountability, multiple duplicated layers of management, redundant positions, out of date clinical practices....the list goes one.

    the only way to fix it is massive overhaul of clinical focus, integrated IT, records, payroll, etc, mass redundancies and contract changes. all of which nobody has the interest or balls to take on!
    HSE otherwise know as horror stories everyday of the medical and financial kind with zero accountability and zero consequences.
    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail

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  27. #94
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    It was with absolute fury I saw Micheal Lehane from RTE being sent out on 9 o clock news last night to take the fax from government PR off the fax machine "look theres tons of budget pressures out there, we have to be careful" ( this with a 2 bil cost on kids hospital plus more coming on the nat broadband plan )

    Whys this important ? cos Public Service pay commission report went to cabinet this morning

    Sure as eggs is eggs Paschal D on radio at lunch
    Mr Donohoe pointed out that Fianna Fáil has a motion before the Dáil this evening seeking a higher rate of pay for the Defence Forces. He said while he values the contribution of people in the Defence Forces, there is a collective pay agreement and “despite what Fianna Fáil says about being careful they are going into the Dáil this evening looking for money.”

    The Public Service Pay Commission will deal with the issue shortly, he added. “Fianna Fáil decided to take advantage of that. We will stick to the collective agreement that treats all public servants equally.”
    see https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...sm-930076.html

    To be technically correct did RACO or PDFORRA actually agree to LRA or HRA - not sure you can actually call an agreement when there wasn't one, werent they imposed with no negotiation or assent if I recall
    Last edited by trellheim; 11th June 2019 at 15:10.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  29. #95
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    LRA and HRA were negotiated.The big snag though was that all representative associations were in a side room.Unless PDFORRA is afforded affiliate status to ICTU that will continue unfortunately.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  30. #96
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    A building has been earmarked for a number of years for this project. What was missing was the the money!.

    This project should begin this year once the DOD release the money to the DF.

    BTW, no such thing as an O/Tel for the last 20 years. O/Commop is the correct term. (Tel's & Sig's combined)
    May I ask what is the optimal type of accomadation for persons living in ?..I would hope single room occupancy at least with laundy, kitchen faciilties and recreational facilities at each block

    I always though that the basin would be optimal but given the potential ecological and environmental hazards that may rear their head in the future , probably not the best of locations,. My choice would be to level the old Billets , build a three floor facility there extending from the NCOs mess to the Galley
    Time for another break I think......

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  32. #97
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    any word on the pay commission report lads... should have been leaked today at least.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  33. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    any word on the pay commission report lads... should have been leaked today at least.
    Was expected to be discussed at cabinet today. Spin in full effect. Pay and allowance "increase" not pay & allowance restoration.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...rs-934141.html
    Taoiseach Leo Varadkar recently told the Dáil that the current staff turnover rate of 8% i s unacceptable and should be reduced to 5% to ensure that healthy staffing levels are maintained. However,Mr Varadkar ruled out any increases to pay, pensions or allowances, claiming it would not be “fair” to “single out” one group in the public sector above any other.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  34. #99
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    any word on the pay commission report lads... should have been leaked today at least.
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1059616/

    €10m package

    Increases in allowances (10% for MSA, increase in PDA, reintroduction of pilot retention scheme)

    Formal announcement tomorrow

    Also saw something about Overseas allowances

  35. #100
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    Taoiseach Leo Varadkar recently told the Dáil that the current staff turnover rate of 8% i s unacceptable and should be reduced to 5% to ensure that healthy staffing levels are maintained. However,Mr Varadkar ruled out any increases to pay, pensions or allowances, claiming it would not be “fair” to “single out” one group in the public sector above any other.
    Garda Siochana get a special "shift hand over / brief" allowance when they threaten disruptive actions.

    Nurses get a new pay grade scheme when they threaten disruptive actions.

    Not fair to single out one group in the public sector over another.......Taoiseach you're spoofing!

    Just need the trinity completed with the Teachers to kick up next to be fair to the rest of the public sector
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

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