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  • We all know that the current talks on forming a government will drag on and that defence might get push off the table especially if the GP have their way. So what of the DF made the commitment to be fully CO2 neutral (GP like the work neutral) by 2030, or 2035 the date is not that important.

    Now before everyone starts to shout that with diesel, kerosene & co none of our equipment will work, we won't be able to fly our planes, we would be able to put a ship to sea and we will not be able to transport any troops in APC's, I would say there is an alternative, and it is not batteries.

    What if in the commitment the DFs undertook to change completely to "Power to Liquid" fuels? This is were you take air, water and renewable electricity and with some super magic make diesel, kerosene &co but CO2 neutral as the carbon is taken from the air. Other alternatives also exist such as biofuel from algae. As these fuels initially are more expensive than fossil fuels they have it hard to become established in a commercial market. The DF could be the catalyst for the change, absorbing the initial higher cost and thus becoming "green".

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    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
      We all know that the current talks on forming a government will drag on and that defence might get push off the table especially if the GP have their way. So what of the DF made the commitment to be fully CO2 neutral (GP like the work neutral) by 2030, or 2035 the date is not that important.

      Now before everyone starts to shout that with diesel, kerosene & co none of our equipment will work, we won't be able to fly our planes, we would be able to put a ship to sea and we will not be able to transport any troops in APC's, I would say there is an alternative, and it is not batteries.

      What if in the commitment the DFs undertook to change completely to "Power to Liquid" fuels? This is were you take air, water and renewable electricity and with some super magic make diesel, kerosene &co but CO2 neutral as the carbon is taken from the air. Other alternatives also exist such as biofuel from algae. As these fuels initially are more expensive than fossil fuels they have it hard to become established in a commercial market. The DF could be the catalyst for the change, absorbing the initial higher cost and thus becoming "green".
      And how does that work for interoperability when deployed overseas?

      Comment


      • There is an EDA project on green energy for green field sites







        Today and everyday we celebrate women in energy at the cutting edge of Ireland's clean energy transition


        And the DF are actively pushing for it, in order to save money



        Of course not sure how that will translate to aircraft

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
          And how does that work for interoperability when deployed overseas?
          Thing like PtL are so-called drop-in fuels, that is when you can you take the "green" produced variant but you vehicle/vessel/aircraft can still use conventionally produced fossil fuel. But something like PtL does open up an alternative for deployments, if you have water and access to power can you produce the fuel locally? At the moment I do not think such a plant can be containerized but it would be something to investigate.

          Comment


          • You can easily make and use biodiesels for diesel engines and gas turbines, especially large engines such as tank engines and marine engines. Biodiesel is readily available in European petrol stations but is not imported here, despite us driving the same cars. Angela Merkel managed to stop mass biodiesel production in Germany at a stroke a few years ago, when she cancelled the opening of a biodiesel refinery over night, having balked against political opponents otherwise we'd probably have bio pumps at every station by now.

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            • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
              You can easily make and use biodiesels for diesel engines and gas turbines, especially large engines such as tank engines and marine engines. Biodiesel is readily available in European petrol stations but is not imported here, despite us driving the same cars. Angela Merkel managed to stop mass biodiesel production in Germany at a stroke a few years ago, when she cancelled the opening of a biodiesel refinery over night, having balked against political opponents otherwise we'd probably have bio pumps at every station by now.
              Very right on biofuels. The USN have test contracts in place for bio-fuels for both ships and jet fighters. Costs per gallon are very high but when the necessary harvests are in place for producing oil seeds and algae the costs should improve. In all of these evolving changes, overnight decisions must be avoided to get a workable transition. Political pushes rarely consider consequences only Votes.

              Comment


              • I wonder if anyone has looked at what the economic balance would be if we shifted from producing a suckling beef herd, we used the same land resource for bio-fuel given favourable growing climate?

                Having the NS run the fleet on bio-diesel would be a great advantage in the PR battle.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  I can see that the DF want to reduce energy costs coming from heating.

                  Looking at the documents it is very much an EU talking shop, the technologies are there, some like the Fischer–Tropsch are nearly 100 yrs old. What is needed is production and trials not more planning, policy, procedure discussions. There is too much bla-bla in the EDA and not enough action.

                  We have the lead of the Stage III WP2 Renewables and should propose real world applications/tests. We can start we the NS as "ships diesel" is see as extremely bad.

                  Comment


                  • The problem with bio diesel is huge swathes of Minnesota, Dakota and Montana farmland that used to produce foodstuffs now instead produce crops to be used for bio fuel. The manner of production keeps profit firmly in th ehands of the refiner, who expects the farmer to store the grain until the price is low, at which point they will take delivery. So the farmer foots the bill for growing, harvesting and storing the raw material.
                    Same trend is happening also in south america, contributing greatly to global warming, as soil that was once sustainably grazed, is turned into tillage.
                    Bio isn't the green alternative fuel it was supposed to be. I would be reluctant to get involved in investing in storage or converting engines to run it until it is cost effective and actually green. Meanwhile, hydrogen is the maritime green fuel of choice. The latest generation of ferries to serve our ports will have hybrid hydrogen propulsion.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      The problem with bio diesel is huge swathes of Minnesota, Dakota and Montana farmland that used to produce foodstuffs now instead produce crops to be used for bio fuel. The manner of production keeps profit firmly in th ehands of the refiner, who expects the farmer to store the grain until the price is low, at which point they will take delivery. So the farmer foots the bill for growing, harvesting and storing the raw material.
                      Same trend is happening also in south america, contributing greatly to global warming, as soil that was once sustainably grazed, is turned into tillage.
                      Bio isn't the green alternative fuel it was supposed to be. I would be reluctant to get involved in investing in storage or converting engines to run it until it is cost effective and actually green. Meanwhile, hydrogen is the maritime green fuel of choice. The latest generation of ferries to serve our ports will have hybrid hydrogen propulsion.
                      I agree. There is a loss and replacement cost in everything undertaken, Global recommendations is to grow more trees to counter carbon. Others clear trees to grow vast amounts of seeds for oil. When the oil is produced you have thousands of tons of seed pulse that has to be converted for other uses including animal feed, however the Greens want the animals culled. The Algae for green diesel has to be sown and nurtured to produce the quality needed and again a residue has to be disposed somehow. The 2010/12 experiments on high grade fuels in USA put costs at 450 USD per gallon. In all these cases the test tube wizards create confusion while sitting there is nuclear power and Hydrogen and water and electrical sources.

                      Comment


                      • Review by Parliamentary Budget Office



                        Conclusions
                        As the analysis in this paper shows, the benefits of the Public Service Stability Agreement and the recommendations of the Public Service Pay Commission result in pay increases that are largest proportionally at lower ranks (i.e. lower starting salaries) but largest in absolute share at higher ranks. As shown by Figure 11, Figure 12, and Figure 13, the increase in take-home pay is largest in absolute terms for the higher ranks, but largest in relative terms for Privates. In addition, the bulk of the increase is provided by the Public Service Stability Agreement, which was an agreement covering the public service in general, and as such could not take sector-specific issues into account.
                        The Strengthening our Defence Forces high-level plan shows that the government is progressing the implementation
                        of the Public Service Pay Commission’s recommendations. As this plan includes reviews of technical pay arrangements, incentivised long-service arrangements (for the specific Commission and NCO ranks identified by the Commission), barriers to extended participation and current retention strategies, it appears to provide a framework for addressing the recommendations of the Public Service Pay Commission. Monitoring and reporting on the implementation of this plan is essential for the confidence and credibility of the plan. As such, the Oireachtas, through the existing Committee channels should consider monitoring the outcome of the actions being taken under the plan, especially those set out for the medium and long term.
                        The measures contained within Strengthening our Defence Forces and suggested by the Public Service Pay Commission are not confined to increases in pay. The climate surveys commissioned by the Department of Defence and structured interviews carried out on behalf of the Pay Commission point to concerns held by rank and file members about the working conditions within the Defence Forces. The issue of remuneration is therefore only one component in addressing recruitment to and retention within the Defence Forces.

                        Comment


                        • So, it's not just pay is the problem, but we aren't going to deal with any of the problems, just in case.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                          Comment


                          • The RACO response
                            The body representing Defence Forces Officer grades has warned that if immediate, significant retention initiatives are not implemented, the Defence Forces will not only never return to its target strength of 9,500, but will continue to decline.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              So, it's not just pay is the problem, but we aren't going to deal with any of the problems, just in case.
                              In any retention factors in organisations such as Defence Forces, the importance of the working environment as a whole is critical. Obviously dress, accommodation, and the realism of what you are within the organisation are factors. The main problem with our PDF is that there is a visible streak of a Spartanism and frugality permeating the main Departments. This leads to half equipped units, including ships, and units at all levels. Settling for inferior options or forcing delays and deferments of crucial items, or equipping in one area at the expense of losing expenditure in another area of functional necessity. This leads to disillusionment and a constant need to operate a "First up best dressed" operational protocol. In all , hand to mouth and embarrassing.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                                In any retention factors in organisations such as Defence Forces, the importance of the working environment as a whole is critical. Obviously dress, accommodation, and the realism of what you are within the organisation are factors. The main problem with our PDF is that there is a visible streak of a Spartanism and frugality permeating the main Departments. This leads to half equipped units, including ships, and units at all levels. Settling for inferior options or forcing delays and deferments of crucial items, or equipping in one area at the expense of losing expenditure in another area of functional necessity. This leads to disillusionment and a constant need to operate a "First up best dressed" operational protocol. In all , hand to mouth and embarrassing.
                                It is a lot more basic than that (not saying it isn’t a factor), it is to do with how the organisation treats people. People are the key enabler of the organisation to undertake its taskings. Have a look at the climate surveys.

                                2015 https://assets.gov.ie/24237/a1cdb05f...6b26f7c9c0.pdf
                                2016 https://assets.gov.ie/24192/c276cb4f...3f2b9826f8.pdf

                                Also look at the PSPC research https://paycommission.gov.ie/wp-cont...nce-Forces.pdf


                                Everyone in the DF could be on €100,000 a year and there would still be major issues

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