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  1. #101
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    AC FTS had observers at an ex in Slovenia according to their tweets

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  3. #102
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    AC FTS had observers at an ex in Slovenia according to their tweets
    You would be amazed where people actually are at the moment and what doesnt make it into the funny papers ha ha ha.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    AC FTS had observers at an ex in Slovenia according to their tweets
    Do you have a link to that Dev? Thanks

  6. #104
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    Do you have a link to that Dev? Thanks
    https://twitter.com/IACFlyingSchool/...73363581624320

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  8. #105
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    Must read closer next time :facepalm: Thanks DeV, great to see them overseas on that exercise with the Slovenians Hopefully we'll see aircraft traveling in the future.

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  10. #106
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    An ex-Cityjet (donated) RJ85 arrived at Baldonnel today to be decommissioned and used for ground training

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  12. #107
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    An ex-Cityjet (donated) RJ85 arrived at Baldonnel today to be decommissioned and used for ground training
    Firefighting or Air Corps College

  13. #108
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    Plenty of spare airliners lying around these days.
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  15. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    Firefighting or Air Corps College
    You don't need an aircraft for firefighting training. If you try, you'll only be able to use it once.
    Back in the bad ole days, the Air Corps had a Crashed (belgian?) Fouga which was used for ground training. However nothing better to get familiarity on the intricacies of aircraft technology, without ripping up a live aircraft is to have a grounded one to work on.
    While parts and design may be different, most share the same basic control functions.
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  16. #110
    C/S CTU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    You don't need an aircraft for firefighting training. If you try, you'll only be able to use it once.
    Why do the DAA have an old B737 outside the Fire Station in Dublin Airport (in addition to the fire plane)?
    Also it may also be useful to other DF units outside of the Air Corps.
    Last edited by CTU; 17th April 2020 at 21:24.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  18. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    An ex-Cityjet (donated) RJ85 arrived at Baldonnel today to be decommissioned and used for ground training
    Maybe they should try to keep it airworthy for another four months just in case they need it to repatriate the troops from Syria and Lebanon in August (contingency in case the normal carrier's aircraft are still grounded). On a side note, I've always felt our lack of transport aircraft have left our overseas troops somewhat exposed.

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  20. #112
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    How is there political problems flying an aircraft that is there for global good? HADR operations into 3rd countries flatten by tropical cyclones, famines, earthquakes, forest fires ect. Repatriations of stranded nationals ....
    You’d be surprised and potentially the biggest issue is the Department of Defence

  21. #113
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    The inverse now applies downunder in NZ - it did not used to be that way. If our Boeings were sold, and the NZ government bought two executive jets for politicians to jolly around like "rock stars and billionaires" - now that would be deeply unpopular. Not that long ago that may have happened, culling the P-3's was a distinct possibility, the public and politicians really didn't care if it happened or not.

    So what is different? Something that is not often recognised or even mentioned on defence forums / discussions, but an increasingly important aspect of the corporate culture of a modern defence force in this day and age. Public Relations.

    Downunder the majority of public now understand and have been deliberately messaged over the past few years that their defence force is an extension and enabler of "NZ Inc's" soft power in terms of trade and diplomacy and one of the key avenues for that is involvement in HADR ops - the NZDF even has a marketing campaign slogan "A Force for Good". The public here have no brook at all with the NZDF flying off to anywhere in the Asia-Pacific on a HADR mission with medical supplies, food, ect - or an Antartica science mission is support of "climate change" - they lap it up or at worst are fairly neutral. However, a politician flying on NZDF aircraft other than the PM internationally is now unheard of - the media will cook up a storm as a case of politicians misusing an important national asset - MATS is virtually a dead duck now.

    Is it that the Irish Defence Force are great at what they do but useless at communicating that greatness to the public which completely undermines the value of what they do to the nation state and their ability to get both public and political support for the required tools to do their job?

    A significant element in what the NZDF (and even better at it are the ADF who taught us this rat cunning comms approach) do these days is communicating to Joe and Jane Public and Jack and Jill Politician what they do and why they do it. An open invitation into the media, hugely active on social media, constant engagement with the community. In 10 years they have gone from near the bottom of the public service trust rankings to near the top.

    The only thing the NZDF changed is the Comms / PR strategy - doctrine is the same - yet the NZDF is in better shape and becoming better equipped. Using outfits like Clemenger BBDO to shape their messaging, having famous sportsman and celebrities train alongside or just hang out with the troops.

    A charm offensive or "Hearts and Minds" by a Defence Force is not just applicable during a SASO mission in East Timor or Mali but institutionally just as important for political and fiscal survival at home in this day and age.
    In fairness the DF have come on leaps and bounds in the last 10 years at PR.... the problem is the Department (who advise the Government on policy and hold the purse strings)

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  23. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    In fairness the DF have come on leaps and bounds in the last 10 years at PR.... the problem is the Department (who advise the Government on policy and hold the purse strings)
    Though the real power is in the DPMC and Finance ministry if you get the Foreign Affairs and Trade folk onside as allies, the DoD is out manouvered. Then come the media columns questioning the competency of the Department, then comes ex Defence Force staff seconded into the department, then the ex CAS gets placed into controlling acquisition and capability policy. Seen it happen, so keep at it.

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  25. #115
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    Our civil service system, probably by design does not assist the idea of seconding exers into Departments. Most promotion is from within (god help us) and the few external appointments to management roles are rarely to anywhere capable of making important decisions. Instead start at low level to complete the brainwashing process.
    Our Dept of Finance, however in th epast has been quite DF friendly. Unfortunately their instructions come from the DoD, rather from the DF directly, and therein lies the problem.
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  27. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Our civil service system, probably by design does not assist the idea of seconding exers into Departments. Most promotion is from within (god help us) and the few external appointments to management roles are rarely to anywhere capable of making important decisions. Instead start at low level to complete the brainwashing process.
    Our Dept of Finance, however in th epast has been quite DF friendly. Unfortunately their instructions come from the DoD, rather from the DF directly, and therein lies the problem.
    We once had the same problem. The NZ Ministry of Defence was a basketcase. It got solved and three new Deputy Securities were moved in as the opportunities arose. One an ex Chief of Air Force, the other two from the security intelligence services with foreign affairs backgrounds.

    So what influence and power within the Executive does the Taoiseach have? His henchmen the Chief of Staff to the PM and the Secretary to the Cabinet (or what ever the local equivalent is called) for that matter? Certainly more than enough to parachute into anywhere anyone they handpick.

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  29. #117
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    Though the real power is in the DPMC and Finance ministry if you get the Foreign Affairs and Trade folk onside as allies, the DoD is out manouvered. Then come the media columns questioning the competency of the Department, then comes ex Defence Force staff seconded into the department, then the ex CAS gets placed into controlling acquisition and capability policy. Seen it happen, so keep at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    We once had the same problem. The NZ Ministry of Defence was a basketcase. It got solved and three new Deputy Securities were moved in as the opportunities arose. One an ex Chief of Air Force, the other two from the security intelligence services with foreign affairs backgrounds.

    So what influence and power within the Executive does the Taoiseach have? His henchmen the Chief of Staff to the PM and the Secretary to the Cabinet (or what ever the local equivalent is called) for that matter? Certainly more than enough to parachute into anywhere anyone they handpick.
    Given that the Taoiseach is the current Minister of Defence (with a Junior Minister with Special Responsibility for Defence).... that’s how much pull he has.

    The issue would appear to be that the Secretary General (Civil servant) of DoD has more power over most areas of the DF than the COS. Now if you had a pro-DF Department that is ok but we don’t.

    Ireland is Constitutional restricted on the amount of Ministers in the Cabinet

  30. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Given that the Taoiseach is the current Minister of Defence (with a Junior Minister with Special Responsibility for Defence).... that’s how much pull he has.
    As I suspected that is more than enough to make the required behaviour modifications to the DoD.

    Maybe the Mods could start a thread that also addresses the organisational improvements to the DoD as it is seemingly is a significant road block to change and development within the DF - which and they should be reminded is the only reason they need to exist and have jobs.

  31. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    As I suspected that is more than enough to make the required behaviour modifications to the DoD.

    Maybe the Mods could start a thread that also addresses the organisational improvements to the DoD as it is seemingly is a significant road block to change and development within the DF - which and they should be reminded is the only reason they need to exist and have jobs.
    That's a common misconception. If the DoD was to shut down tomorrow, none of them would lose their jobs. They would be moved to another appointment appropriate to their grade and skills. For those who work there now Defence is a stepping stone to the next promotion. Do x,y and z, keep out of trouble and dont take too many sickness and apply for the next inter departmental promotion competition.
    Defence is also handy as you wont have to travel too far for external meetings, but you still get to travel. I'm sure the travel between DoD offices and the ministers office keeps most staff in t&s nicely.
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  32. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    As I suspected that is more than enough to make the required behaviour modifications to the DoD.

    Maybe the Mods could start a thread that also addresses the organisational improvements to the DoD as it is seemingly is a significant road block to change and development within the DF - which and they should be reminded is the only reason they need to exist and have jobs.
    Something along the lines of an Irish version of " Yes Minister" .
    Last edited by Laners; 24th April 2020 at 08:25.
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

  33. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Something along the lines of an Irish version of " Yes Minister" .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIYfiRyPi3o

  34. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Something along the lines of an Irish version of " Yes Minister" .
    Which is horrifying as Yes Minister was the 1980's and by what na grohmiti wrote above makes fact stranger than fiction/comedy.

    At least with Yes Minister Sir Humphrey was keen to buy the best. A cruise missile that Harrods would sell you (which was a joke in a joke noting the owner of Harrods previous occupation).
    Last edited by Anzac; 24th April 2020 at 09:24.

  35. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    As I suspected that is more than enough to make the required behaviour modifications to the DoD.

    Maybe the Mods could start a thread that also addresses the organisational improvements to the DoD as it is seemingly is a significant road block to change and development within the DF - which and they should be reminded is the only reason they need to exist and have jobs.
    Interesting to see an outline of uses of Mil. Pers. equipments and establishments, to assist in actions against the Coronavirus pandemic. I note the Naval involvement has been reduced to 2 ships and the Aer Corps to 2 pilots and a helicopter on standby. The matters are outlined in documents published on facebook. I note that moribund establishments and camps have been resurrected as stand down and isolation units. It is time that who does what is properly outlined and that Defence is funded as part of the bulwark against natural and other disasters.

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  37. #124
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    I thought that was the whole point of the Civil Defence organisation. Are they contributing to the fight against the virus? You dont see any mention of them on the news or FB or any of the usual outlets.

  38. #125
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    There was mention of them collecting test samples in the early days of this.

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