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  • #46
    The material is to be used for all DF so the cost of all DPM both Army and Navy will be increased initally.
    So ALL items of DF get are going to be flame resistant /retardant now.is that correct?Not just the UBACS and T-Shirts?? A bit overkill seeing as the DPM shirt is now being classed as Barracks wear.Also Experience has shown that making Garments FR makes them HOTTER to wear so make up your minds.
    But being of better quality along with a new kit policy will ensure personnel look after their personal kit.
    Better quality my Fainne.Has anybody looked at the right arm of any of their DPM shirts lately? Even brand new ones barely worn.The material under the arm near the armpit gets worn away.Even faster with the 2016-2017 shirts due to the velcro on end of the nametag rubbing against it during the day.As for a new kit policy.There is one already. You put in for kit.Six months later you are still waiting for it because stores shuts down to kit out every recruit platoon and every overseas rotation.
    So the simple policy is if you get it at all your lucky!
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
      The additional cost will be larger yes initally, but it will be cost effective over time.

      Less issued than the current GDR which is initial issue of 4 shirts, 4 pants.
      The material is to be used for all DF so the cost of all DPM both Army and Navy will be increased initally.
      But being of better quality along with a new kit policy will ensure personnel look after their personal kit.

      Many of who commented here will not wear this kit.
      I for one am glad we are finally getting a quality uniform that we can layer up/down depending on time of year, AO etc.
      What it looks like from your armchair is irrelevant, what its like to wear 200 miles off the west coast on operations is the important thing.


      The last few weeks with the high temperatures wearing GDR has been a nightmare, sweating profusely.

      Only on trial this year, so it may not happen at all or may go through significant changes depending on performance on said trial.
      I think you’ll find it difficult to find someone who doesn’t agree that the current GDR isn’t fit for purpose (from what has been said here and elsewhere).

      It is the fact it will be in a new pattern of DPM.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
        Cost is not an issue when it comes to manufacturing these uniforms.
        The contractor just has to threaten its staff that unless they complete the irish order for 2000 different colour uniforms in time they won't get their wifi back and their parents will be called before the factory manager...
        That’s the cost of manufacturing.... not the cost to the customer

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        • #49
          So ALL items of DF get are going to be flame resistant /retardant now.is that correct?Not just the UBACS and T-Shirts?? A bit overkill seeing as the DPM shirt is now being classed as Barracks wear
          I always agreed that flame retardant issued gear should be available to anyone working in armoured vehicles, especially crews. How you go about issuing it or quantifying it is problematic but it is a must.

          Many of who commented here will not wear this kit.
          I for one am glad we are finally getting a quality uniform that we can layer up/down depending on time of year, AO etc.
          What it looks like from your armchair is irrelevant, what its like to wear 200 miles off the west coast on operations is the important thing.
          While not in favour of the pattern I would agree that this work wear in modular format is long overdue
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • #50
            Originally posted by apod View Post
            Really? MM seems to have found a away around that with the extra ship even though there wasn't enough people to crew it.

            Ah no. I just did a quick search and France,Germany,The Netherlands,Spain and Portugal all have a plain navy or blue uniform.


            So issue an updated version of the Plain Navy smock and associated underlayers that the NS experimented with a few years back for day to day use and a set of normal DPMs for ranges etc.No need for a bespoke pattern that is going to cost Johnny and jane taxpayer more. You did hit the nail on head though. This has nothing to do with Operational effectiveness it is driven by two core factors.Corporate Identity( An NS Tally on the Shirt/smock and a BFO tricolour cant do this???) and most important of all to the NS : "We don't want to look like the Army!"

            PS: Here what the Yanks are going for now:
            https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...able-and-free/
            I note the Australian Navy and Airforce are changing to Blue DPM and the Dutch seem to DPM for boarding operations. However I don't really care once the issue is fit for purpose and if DPM is of close pitch pattern. Corporate identity is important both ashore and afloat. The Navy needs proper provision and possibly might be better doing so from direct allotted resources.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Chuck View Post
              I must say the most satisfying fallout from the new Navy DPM is how much it will upset the hardened office Pongo's.

              The more Ikon posts the better.
              What the F£$k is a "pongo" when it's in Ireland?

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              • #52
                The additional cost will be larger yes initally, but it will be cost effective over time.
                Yup. That's going to be a morale booster for the lads." Lads we cant afford to pay you a decent wage or provide you with proper accomodation but here's a more expensive uniform,that'll cheer you up".Tell that to the Families and see what reaction you get.


                Many of who commented here will not wear this kit.

                What it looks like from your armchair is irrelevant, what its like to wear 200 miles off the west coast on operations is the important thing.
                Oh. Nicely dismissive.So you can post about a wasteful vanity project from YOUR armchair,but if anyone criticizes from theirs then they are some kind of keyboard warrior??Really?? That of course assumes that anybody who criticizes wasting taxpayers money dressed up Operational neccessity hasn't got many years of operational experience under their belt and can recognise Military BS when they hear or see it.



                Originally posted by Chuck View Post
                I must say the most satisfying fallout from the new Navy DPM is how much it will upset the hardened office Pongo's.

                The more Ikon posts the better.
                Just proven the point.This uniform has ZERO to do with Operational effectiveness and it just about the NS wanting to be Different.All this of course when the NS is on it's knees and the money that will be spent on this could be better spent on improving the lot of the few people you have left.Yup.Crack on.Good leadership there.

                Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                I note the Australian Navy and Airforce are changing to Blue DPM and the Dutch seem to DPM for boarding operations. However I don't really care once the issue is fit for purpose and if DPM is of close pitch pattern. Corporate identity is important both ashore and afloat. The Navy needs proper provision and possibly might be better doing so from direct allotted resources.
                A quick google search proves that is not the case for the RAN.https://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...-the-mmpu.html So.Yeah they are sticking with Camo but if you look you can see reflective strips on both arms on the current and trials uniforms.Why bother having a Camo uniform at all if you are going to do that??Kinda dfeats the purpose of having Camo at all really.

                Again you have also proved my point.This is more to do with the NS wanting to be different than a real need. So to reiterate.By all means update the NS GDR to make it more effective AND user friendly.Just don't waste money on a useless new pattern at a time when it would be a massive own goal.
                Last edited by apod; 14 August 2019, 21:25.
                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by sofa View Post
                  What the F£$k is a "pongo" when it's in Ireland?
                  Handsome, witty, charming...

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by apod View Post
                    Yup. That's going to be a morale booster for the lads." Lads we cant afford to pay you a decent wage or provide you with proper accomodation but here's a more expensive uniform,that'll cheer you up".Tell that to the Families and see what reaction you get.



                    Oh. Nicely dismissive.So you can post about a wasteful vanity project from YOUR armchair,but if anyone criticizes from theirs then they are some kind of keyboard warrior??Really?? That of course assumes that anybody who criticizes wasting taxpayers money dressed up Operational neccessity hasn't got many years of operational experience under their belt and can recognise Military BS when they hear or see it.




                    Just proven the point.This uniform has ZERO to do with Operational effectiveness and it just about the NS wanting to be Different.All this of course when the NS is on it's knees and the money that will be spent on this could be better spent on improving the lot of the few people you have left.Yup.Crack on.Good leadership there.



                    A quick google search proves that is not the case for the RAN.https://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...-the-mmpu.html So.Yeah they are sticking with Camo but if you look you can see reflective strips on both arms on the current and trials uniforms.Why bother having a Camo uniform at all if you are going to do that??Kinda dfeats the purpose of having Camo at all really.

                    Again you have also proved my point.This is more to do with the NS wanting to be different than a real need. So to reiterate.By all means update the NS GDR to make it more effective AND user friendly.Just don't waste money on a useless new pattern at a time when it would be a massive own goal.
                    Jesus your very angry......

                    Wasn't my intent to criticize anybody. My point was irregardless of the hate for the pattern etc, the upgrade of uniform is needed.

                    This is in the planning for many a year, long before the current crisis arose.

                    It is not possible as you know, to transfer money from procurement budgets to pay.

                    Nobody beside the Minister can make that happen and it hasnt happened so far.

                    To be honest id wear pink pajamas in lieu of this uniform if it ment restoration of pay

                    Yes your prob correct that the timing of introduction is not a good step, with the current issues with pay and conditions.

                    If you took offence to my previous posts then my apologies.

                    As per my last post, this is just a trial so it may not come to fruition at all.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by sofa View Post
                      What the F£$k is a "pongo" when it's in Ireland?
                      Plenty of definitions available through a simple google search.

                      @Apod - I know you had provided some useful advice to another poster on here recently suggesting that they use paragraphs for the benefit of others reading their posts. Could I respectfully request some spacing after full stops?

                      As you are a soldier who is undoubtedly incredibly adept at the skill of military writing I'm sure you can appreciate how, line after line of unbroken text, might impact those reading your passionate and well informed posts.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                        It is not possible as you know, to transfer money from procurement budgets to pay.

                        Nobody beside the Minister can make that happen and it hasnt happened so far.
                        .
                        We got a 4th P60 with the underspend in DF Pay

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by sofa View Post
                          What the F£$k is a "pongo" when it's in Ireland?
                          According to Google-it is in Naval and Air Force terminology descriptive of a soldier. It is slightly derogatory and reserved for in-house usage. A bit like calling MP's Rozzers

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                          • #58
                            When of course the correct term is traffic cone...
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                              Jesus your very angry......

                              Wasn't my intent to criticize anybody. My point was irregardless of the hate for the pattern etc, the upgrade of uniform is needed.

                              This is in the planning for many a year, long before the current crisis arose.

                              It is not possible as you know, to transfer money from procurement budgets to pay.

                              Nobody beside the Minister can make that happen and it hasnt happened so far.

                              To be honest id wear pink pajamas in lieu of this uniform if it ment restoration of pay

                              Yes your prob correct that the timing of introduction is not a good step, with the current issues with pay and conditions.

                              If you took offence to my previous posts then my apologies.

                              As per my last post, this is just a trial so it may not come to fruition at all.
                              Thank you.Finally you are seeing my point.The issue is not the uniform.I think we all agree it needs updating and I am 100% behind that.
                              The issue is the money that is going to be spent on something that is not needed(the pattern) at a time when it is going to send completely the wrong signal to those still serving and suffering.
                              The DF is already on the back foot with regards "They have money to spend on equipment but not their people".Let's not put more fuel on that fire. A rethink is in order IMHO,especially regarding the timing of all of this.

                              Oh and thank you I accept your apology.Takes a big man to apologize. If I am coming off as angry it's probably because I am.Angry at how something like this can be a priority when people are really really suffering.That's all.
                              Last edited by apod; 15 August 2019, 10:35.
                              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Chuck View Post
                                Plenty of definitions available through a simple google search.

                                @Apod - I know you had provided some useful advice to another poster on here recently suggesting that they use paragraphs for the benefit of others reading their posts. Could I respectfully request some spacing after full stops?

                                As you are a soldier who is undoubtedly incredibly adept at the skill of military writing I'm sure you can appreciate how, line after line of unbroken text, might impact those reading your passionate and well informed posts.
                                Thank you for your contribution Chuck.Most helpful.I will take it on board.
                                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                                Comment

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