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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    I must say the most satisfying fallout from the new Navy DPM is how much it will upset the hardened office Pongo's.

    The more Ikon posts the better.
    What the F£$k is a "pongo" when it's in Ireland?

  2. #52
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    The additional cost will be larger yes initally, but it will be cost effective over time.
    Yup. That's going to be a morale booster for the lads." Lads we cant afford to pay you a decent wage or provide you with proper accomodation but here's a more expensive uniform,that'll cheer you up".Tell that to the Families and see what reaction you get.


    Many of who commented here will not wear this kit.

    What it looks like from your armchair is irrelevant, what its like to wear 200 miles off the west coast on operations is the important thing.
    Oh. Nicely dismissive.So you can post about a wasteful vanity project from YOUR armchair,but if anyone criticizes from theirs then they are some kind of keyboard warrior??Really?? That of course assumes that anybody who criticizes wasting taxpayers money dressed up Operational neccessity hasn't got many years of operational experience under their belt and can recognise Military BS when they hear or see it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    I must say the most satisfying fallout from the new Navy DPM is how much it will upset the hardened office Pongo's.

    The more Ikon posts the better.
    Just proven the point.This uniform has ZERO to do with Operational effectiveness and it just about the NS wanting to be Different.All this of course when the NS is on it's knees and the money that will be spent on this could be better spent on improving the lot of the few people you have left.Yup.Crack on.Good leadership there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    I note the Australian Navy and Airforce are changing to Blue DPM and the Dutch seem to DPM for boarding operations. However I don't really care once the issue is fit for purpose and if DPM is of close pitch pattern. Corporate identity is important both ashore and afloat. The Navy needs proper provision and possibly might be better doing so from direct allotted resources.
    A quick google search proves that is not the case for the RAN.https://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...-the-mmpu.html So.Yeah they are sticking with Camo but if you look you can see reflective strips on both arms on the current and trials uniforms.Why bother having a Camo uniform at all if you are going to do that??Kinda dfeats the purpose of having Camo at all really.

    Again you have also proved my point.This is more to do with the NS wanting to be different than a real need. So to reiterate.By all means update the NS GDR to make it more effective AND user friendly.Just don't waste money on a useless new pattern at a time when it would be a massive own goal.
    Last edited by apod; 14th August 2019 at 21:25.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    What the F£$k is a "pongo" when it's in Ireland?
    Handsome, witty, charming...

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  6. #54
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Yup. That's going to be a morale booster for the lads." Lads we cant afford to pay you a decent wage or provide you with proper accomodation but here's a more expensive uniform,that'll cheer you up".Tell that to the Families and see what reaction you get.



    Oh. Nicely dismissive.So you can post about a wasteful vanity project from YOUR armchair,but if anyone criticizes from theirs then they are some kind of keyboard warrior??Really?? That of course assumes that anybody who criticizes wasting taxpayers money dressed up Operational neccessity hasn't got many years of operational experience under their belt and can recognise Military BS when they hear or see it.




    Just proven the point.This uniform has ZERO to do with Operational effectiveness and it just about the NS wanting to be Different.All this of course when the NS is on it's knees and the money that will be spent on this could be better spent on improving the lot of the few people you have left.Yup.Crack on.Good leadership there.



    A quick google search proves that is not the case for the RAN.https://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...-the-mmpu.html So.Yeah they are sticking with Camo but if you look you can see reflective strips on both arms on the current and trials uniforms.Why bother having a Camo uniform at all if you are going to do that??Kinda dfeats the purpose of having Camo at all really.

    Again you have also proved my point.This is more to do with the NS wanting to be different than a real need. So to reiterate.By all means update the NS GDR to make it more effective AND user friendly.Just don't waste money on a useless new pattern at a time when it would be a massive own goal.
    Jesus your very angry......

    Wasn't my intent to criticize anybody. My point was irregardless of the hate for the pattern etc, the upgrade of uniform is needed.

    This is in the planning for many a year, long before the current crisis arose.

    It is not possible as you know, to transfer money from procurement budgets to pay.

    Nobody beside the Minister can make that happen and it hasnt happened so far.

    To be honest id wear pink pajamas in lieu of this uniform if it ment restoration of pay

    Yes your prob correct that the timing of introduction is not a good step, with the current issues with pay and conditions.

    If you took offence to my previous posts then my apologies.

    As per my last post, this is just a trial so it may not come to fruition at all.

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  8. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    What the F£$k is a "pongo" when it's in Ireland?
    Plenty of definitions available through a simple google search.

    @Apod - I know you had provided some useful advice to another poster on here recently suggesting that they use paragraphs for the benefit of others reading their posts. Could I respectfully request some spacing after full stops?

    As you are a soldier who is undoubtedly incredibly adept at the skill of military writing I'm sure you can appreciate how, line after line of unbroken text, might impact those reading your passionate and well informed posts.

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  10. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    It is not possible as you know, to transfer money from procurement budgets to pay.

    Nobody beside the Minister can make that happen and it hasnt happened so far.
    .
    We got a 4th P60 with the underspend in DF Pay

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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    What the F£$k is a "pongo" when it's in Ireland?
    According to Google-it is in Naval and Air Force terminology descriptive of a soldier. It is slightly derogatory and reserved for in-house usage. A bit like calling MP's Rozzers

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  14. #58
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    When of course the correct term is traffic cone...
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  16. #59
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    Jesus your very angry......

    Wasn't my intent to criticize anybody. My point was irregardless of the hate for the pattern etc, the upgrade of uniform is needed.

    This is in the planning for many a year, long before the current crisis arose.

    It is not possible as you know, to transfer money from procurement budgets to pay.

    Nobody beside the Minister can make that happen and it hasnt happened so far.

    To be honest id wear pink pajamas in lieu of this uniform if it ment restoration of pay

    Yes your prob correct that the timing of introduction is not a good step, with the current issues with pay and conditions.

    If you took offence to my previous posts then my apologies.

    As per my last post, this is just a trial so it may not come to fruition at all.
    Thank you.Finally you are seeing my point.The issue is not the uniform.I think we all agree it needs updating and I am 100% behind that.
    The issue is the money that is going to be spent on something that is not needed(the pattern) at a time when it is going to send completely the wrong signal to those still serving and suffering.
    The DF is already on the back foot with regards "They have money to spend on equipment but not their people".Let's not put more fuel on that fire. A rethink is in order IMHO,especially regarding the timing of all of this.

    Oh and thank you I accept your apology.Takes a big man to apologize. If I am coming off as angry it's probably because I am.Angry at how something like this can be a priority when people are really really suffering.That's all.
    Last edited by apod; 15th August 2019 at 10:35.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  18. #60
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Plenty of definitions available through a simple google search.

    @Apod - I know you had provided some useful advice to another poster on here recently suggesting that they use paragraphs for the benefit of others reading their posts. Could I respectfully request some spacing after full stops?

    As you are a soldier who is undoubtedly incredibly adept at the skill of military writing I'm sure you can appreciate how, line after line of unbroken text, might impact those reading your passionate and well informed posts.
    Thank you for your contribution Chuck.Most helpful.I will take it on board.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  19. #61
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Thank you.Finally you are seeing my point.The issue is not the uniform.I think we all agree it needs updating and I am 100% behind that.
    The issue is the money that is going to be spent on something that is not needed(the pattern) at a time when it is going to send completely the wrong signal to those still serving and suffering.
    The DF is already on the back foot with regards "They have money to spend on equipment but not their people".Let's not put more fuel on that fire. A rethink is in order IMHO,especially regarding the timing of all of this.

    Oh and thank you I accept your apology.Takes a big man to apologize. If I am coming off as angry it's probably because I am.Angry at how something like this can be a priority when people are really really suffering.That's all.
    And if they are that worried about the corporate identity they could put the “Navy” hi-viz that they have on their body armour/floatation aids on the rear of some of the layers, put hi-viz cuffs on the arms and collar like the Australians and just wear hi-viz as required.

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  21. #62
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    i wonder if someone were to FOI the cost of the uniform in DPM and the equivalent garments in NON DPM how the pricing would work out?
    Time for another break I think......

  22. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    i wonder if someone were to FOI the cost of the uniform in DPM and the equivalent garments in NON DPM how the pricing would work out?
    I would not expect a big price difference, except you have to pay for the development of the pattern
    Looking at the US firm Crye who supply multicam commercially there is no difference. But it is only what is available commercially!
    https://www.cryeprecision.com/Produc...lg0_lwf-jacket

  23. #64
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    What’s the reports on the equivalent RN uniform?

    We have a MOU with them.

    We could even get the tricolours and other DF specifics added locally or as part of the contract



    Of course something multicoloured in a particular pattern than one has one customer is going to cost more

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  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    What’s the reports on the equivalent RN uniform?

    We have a MOU with them.

    We could even get the tricolours and other DF specifics added locally or as part of the contract



    Of course something multicoloured in a particular pattern than one has one customer is going to cost more
    Apparently the uniform itself is functionally good but there were complaints about the 'corporate image' in that it made RN sailors look like mechanics and gas boiler repair men.

    Looks like a fine uniform to me. Replace the white ensign with a tri-colour and done. Horse has bolted now though.

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  27. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    According to Google-it is in Naval and Air Force terminology descriptive of a soldier. It is slightly derogatory and reserved for in-house usage. A bit like calling MP's Rozzers
    Similar to sea-hag, rock ape, bluffwaffe etc. All of which are used on here routinely so I hope nobody's feelings are hurt.

    On the brightside its a DF holiday today. Always welcomed.

  28. #67
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    I'm afraid that the 'corporate image' thrust is flogging a dead horse - how many times have journalists described RAF helicopters (with ROYAL AIR FORCE in 2 ft high letters helpfully written all over them...) as 'Army helicopters'?

    The best you can hope for is to have NAVY in 6 inch letters written on the blokes/blokettes chests and back, and for the NS to go mad (in the style of the RN and RFA) with Twitter accounts. I also take the view that these 'naval' DPM patterns make the wearer's look like Ukrainian Tax Collectors....

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  30. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    I'm afraid that the 'corporate image' thrust is flogging a dead horse - how many times have journalists described RAF helicopters (with ROYAL AIR FORCE in 2 ft high letters helpfully written all over them...) as 'Army helicopters'?

    The best you can hope for is to have NAVY in 6 inch letters written on the blokes/blokettes chests and back, and for the NS to go mad (in the style of the RN and RFA) with Twitter accounts. I also take the view that these 'naval' DPM patterns make the wearer's look like Ukrainian Tax Collectors....
    The matter now is a little vexatious and causing some internecine warfare. The bottom line is that it must be UNIFORM, a satisfactory all purpose, and all weather, working/combat dress ashore and afloat, it must be identifiable by Service, Rank, and Country of origin. It must of course survive salt water and Laundry. The colour can range from Black , Blue, Grey or a DPM of all three . AFIK it may be manufactured in Ulster.

  31. #69
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    AFIK it may be manufactured in Ulster.
    The Company that was approached to Manufacture the trials Kit is based in N.I but their manufacturing plant is based elsewhere AFAIK.
    And no.It's not Cooneen.

    Funny that the NS would go to them when Seyntex in Belgium has the overall DF Combat/working uniform contract at the moment.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  32. #70
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    Old contracts lapse.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  33. #71
    Recruit Poiuyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Poiuyt
    Tricolour is hard to subdue. Once it is subdued, it just looks like every other subdued tricolour. Yeah, you have the "IRELAND" part but why bother having the tricolour then?
    2/ Agreed.Yet there are already two different versions of subdued tricolour on issue and not just for "them".Oh and the tricolour on the NSV-DPM was deliberately left hi-viz.
    Ok, I will not question the reasoning of "them" as I have no knowledge of their MO.

    But (other than "them")Why have a subdued tricolour? We had a small tricolour flash that was got rid of. While not subdued, it was far more tactical that its replacement. I understand that the large replacement tricolour made more sense on UN/EU missions but why replace it with a subdued version? Why not go with the older smaller tricolour?

    It is the same old DF circular logic - "We want to be all camouflaged and don't want to be seen, but still want to forecast to everyone 'Don't Shoot, We're Irish' ".

    Or is it so we can fit in with all the other countries and show off our gucci subdued flags at the bar?
    Last edited by Poiuyt; 16th August 2019 at 14:51.

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  35. #72
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  36. #73
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    Yes the ESS lads and ladies get issued kit

  37. #74
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    Yes the ESS lads and ladies get issued kit[/QUOTE]

    Do you know why they get it? Or what the DF gets from them?

  38. #75
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Might be a use for the unissued Navy blues...
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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