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  • PC-9M

    What earthly role do they fulfill other than training pilots for Aer Lingus and Aer de Rien? I mean actually? How many would the Air Corps need for its own purposes?

  • #2
    Most other users have them as lead in trainers for other single seat or tandem seat aircraft. All our pilots, when trained move onto side by side, fixed wing or rotary wing.
    But of course it looks good to strap on a machine gun pod and say you can use them for area defense...
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • #3
      realistically - for the air corps's own use - how many would we need? They strike me as too many. Mothball the rest for attrition.

      Alternatively get paid by Ryanair and Aer Linus for pilot training
      Last edited by Graylion; 11 November 2019, 09:46.

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      • #4
        We should conserve our assets, either have side by side basic training aircraft, and forget completely about any combat role for fixed wing, or have actual tandem seat combat aircraft to train for.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • #5
          You don't need side by side for basic training, the PC-9M seems to function well for ab initio training. I agree on forgetting the combat role though. A cheaper option would be the Grob G120TP

          Last edited by Graylion; 11 November 2019, 12:23.

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          • #6
            Not forgetting that the PC9 replaced both a basic trainer (Marchetti) and advanced (Fouga). Both of which could take rocket pods and machine guns.

            By having a military trainer the AC maintains a limited ground attack capability (note the USAF is also looking to buy a not dissimilar aircraft for COIN ops) and DoD believes it also has a (extremely) limited air to air capability.

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            • #7
              This crops up every so often and it's quite tiresome to be honest.

              They offer a limited point defence capability and a limited air to ground capability, versus a Grob, which offers none of these capabilities. You use what you have to face the threats, e.g. the USAF has F-16s, F-15's, F-22's and F-35's, but they still use armed Blackhawks and other lower performance aircraft to enforce airspace restrictions.

              The PC-9's are a very capable training platform and they can mirror the military training syllabus followed by e.g. the RAF to a point. They also offer a reasonable platform for helping training in FACs and as DeV points out, despite the wealth of airframes the USAF has at their disposal - they keep looking at Super Tucano/Texan derivatives for the COIN role. Similar aircraft are in service across the world in that role already.

              I believe there were reports that the Irish experience indirectly lead the RNZAF deciding to go from the CT/4E to the Texan - and they, similarly, don't have front line fighter aircraft.

              There's a belief that crops up on this forum that if the IAC didn't have PC-9's, they'd magically get P-8 Poseidons, Blackhawks and CH-47's... or at least more AW-139's... but I think it's safe to say, that's bollocks - they'd just have no PC-9's.

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              • #8
                So what sort of scenario could we expect to see our PC-9 's , using their weapons in anger , hardly here at home . And if it was to be such then they are most likely to never get off the ground and be wiped out early . Of course we could hope that any potential attacker will be equipped with aircraft similar to our own just to keep things fair .
                Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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                • #9
                  Chasing errant piston props or helis out of shannon airport when POTUS is visiting.
                  At least the fougas, armed with twin nose mounted machine guns, were able to escort Pope jp2's B747 into Dublin, long long ago.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Laners View Post
                    So what sort of scenario could we expect to see our PC-9 's , using their weapons in anger , hardly here at home . And if it was to be such then they are most likely to never get off the ground and be wiped out early . Of course we could hope that any potential attacker will be equipped with aircraft similar to our own just to keep things fair .
                    Sure why stop there so - how would an OPV fair against a few mines, let alone a frigate or submarine - jesus never mind an aerial threat? So what's the point in them having 76mm, or 20mm? If you can answer that, surely you can stretch a millimeter more to where a PC-9 could give someone a very bad day.

                    They're no more designed for conflict with another state than the OPV's are.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      Chasing errant piston props or helis out of shannon airport when POTUS is visiting.
                      At least the fougas, armed with twin nose mounted machine guns, were able to escort Pope jp2's B747 into Dublin, long long ago.
                      Wonderful theatre that was, but a Fouga would have had little more chance of intercepting an errant 747 cruising at altitude than the PC-9 - if anything the PC-9 is more practical for a point defence role against low and slow aircraft due its far better endurance and a modern HUD etc.

                      Can't police much if you're on the ground refueling.

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                      • #12
                        The 1999 white paper would have disbanded the air corps and replaced the naval service with a coast guard modelled on The Scottish fisheries protection service had Bertie not been told that the pc9 were the minimum air defence needed for potus and Eu conferences unless we were NATO members

                        Pym is right the question is extremely tiresome

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pym View Post
                          Wonderful theatre that was, but a Fouga would have had little more chance of intercepting an errant 747 cruising at altitude than the PC-9 - if anything the PC-9 is more practical for a point defence role against low and slow aircraft due its far better endurance and a modern HUD etc.

                          Can't police much if you're on the ground refueling.
                          The fouga escort was about forming a cross and had religious symbolism

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pym View Post
                            Sure why stop there so - how would an OPV fair against a few mines, let alone a frigate or submarine - jesus never mind an aerial threat? So what's the point in them having 76mm, or 20mm? If you can answer that, surely you can stretch a millimeter more to where a PC-9 could give someone a very bad day.

                            They're no more designed for conflict with another state than the OPV's are.
                            Spoken like a politician deflecting the topic another direction . Maybe open a thread on Naval Weapons and their usefulness .
                            Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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                            • #15
                              My quiet and peaceful neck of the woods here in Carbury in Kildare is often interrupted by a pair of PC-9s reenacting the Battle of Britain overhead , as to what practical reason there is for such aerial maneuvers in a trainer aircraft is beyond me when you consider that a Casa is most likely were these pilots will be flying operationally .
                              Last edited by Laners; 11 November 2019, 16:22.
                              Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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