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  • #31
    The facilities used wouldn't qualify for HIQA licensing , so up grades or new builds would probably be huge out of an already underfunded DF
    Are the DF subject to HIQA ?
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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    • #32
      Originally posted by trellheim View Post
      Are the DF subject to HIQA ?
      Let's say it's a "grey" area. However the Brits handed over a busy capable hospital in 1922 at the Curragh and it was staffed by 37 members of the ANS who provided a 365 day 24/7 service to the Curragh Based Army and it's families. The hospital also looked after IRA prisoners. As the pols lost interest in the soul and ethos of the PDF it all withered on the vine. The last time I checked the ANS staff in the Curragh was down to 5 with nearly 16 decades of service between them. It just means our PDF is not combat capable except embedded in someone else's formation. Duty of care is a problem.
      I did a check on HIQA's inspections up to January 2020 and in 360 inspections there were no Mil Hospitals inspected.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by trellheim View Post
        Are the DF subject to HIQA ?
        All medical facilities are subject to HIQA ...worse than the Health and Saftey

        That isn’t to say that the DF doesn’t have trained capable people but without sufficient patient contact they won’t have the level of experience to cover those eventualities (eg major trauma accident on an ex at home) or will lose registration due to lack of sufficient patients.
        I'd be interested to see what the numbers are around trained registered health professionals is within the DF, I do know Paramedic qualified pers are imbedded within the NAS as part of their training.

        Specialist such as Anaesthetics do need to carry out a certain amount of certain types of procedures to remai current as do surgeons , but medical physicians don't. hence the lack of surgeons in the DF.

        Support functions in hospitals after a short period of induction could be carried out by members of the DF and I'm constantly surprised that this hasn't take place or at least liaison should it be required, but then again I'm not sitting at the top table, but to fit in with my function there would need to be some consultation.
        Last edited by hptmurphy; 2 April 2020, 10:06.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • #34
          Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          All medical facilities are subject to HIQA ...worse than the Health and Saftey
          Indeed they are , I've crossed paths with them a few times .
          Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Laners View Post
            Indeed they are , I've crossed paths with them a few times .
            I've checked HIQA inspection reports up to January 2020 and they do not log a MH visit. I noticed they visited Royal Victoria in Belfast. Maybe visits to our facilities were exploratory and under the counter.
            Last edited by ancientmariner; 2 April 2020, 10:58.

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            • #36
              Given the two brigade structure, does the ORBAT (even on paper) not include two Field Ambulances (or equivelant) to cover casualty evacuation? Or is it purely Regimental Aid Posts (or equivelant)?
              'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
              'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
              Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
              He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
              http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                Given the two brigade structure, does the ORBAT (even on paper) not include two Field Ambulances (or equivelant) to cover casualty evacuation? Or is it purely Regimental Aid Posts (or equivelant)?
                Not in public domain

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                  I'd be interested to see what the numbers are around trained registered health professionals is within the DF, I do know Paramedic qualified pers are imbedded within the NAS as part of their training.

                  Specialist such as Anaesthetics do need to carry out a certain amount of certain types of procedures to remai current as do surgeons , but medical physicians don't. hence the lack of surgeons in the DF.

                  Support functions in hospitals after a short period of induction could be carried out by members of the DF and I'm constantly surprised that this hasn't take place or at least liaison should it be required, but then again I'm not sitting at the top table, but to fit in with my function there would need to be some consultation.
                  Not sure of numbers but not huge

                  EMTs (not sure about Paramedics & APs) have to have min 12 patient contacts annually

                  It doesn’t make medical sense or VFM to have specialists that aren’t used or are used rarely..... i know id prefer to be treated by someone who had treated someone with the same issues more frequently and was more experienced in it.

                  The typical MO is basically a GP with some additional training and a lot of that will have never/rarely used .... which is a good thing ... until it is needed.

                  A start is definitely the Traineeships in Mil Medicine


                  From military.ie for direct entry MO’s:
                  In addition it is desirable but not essential that candidates be entered on one of the following Specialist Register of the Medical Council of Ireland.

                  Emergency Medicine
                  Anaesthetist
                  General Practice Medicine
                  Occupational Medicine
                  Psychiatric specialties
                  Public Health Medicine

                  You don’t want an Major accident/incident that happens at home/overseas to be the first time a MO has seen a major trauma in 10 years.

                  Again I’m not proposing that DF personnel replace HSE personnel.

                  One good way for MO’s would be for them to be on call for ICRR with the Merit3 project

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                  • #39
                    You don’t want an Major accident/incident that happens at home/overseas to be the first time a MO has seen a major trauma in 10 years.
                    EDs are not only for ED qualified persons.

                    All ED units have Surgical and Medical persons attched to assist in fast tracking people to the correct service.

                    Too many people watching the likes of 'ER' . Our system is absolutely the opposite of what you see on TV shows where all triage is carried out by nurses here, Doctors is about third in line unless its a major injury.

                    he typical MO is basically a GP with some additional training and a lot of that will have never/rarely used .... which is a good thing ... until it is needed.
                    and then he has no place in hospital medicine as Hospital medicine has define boundaries
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                      EDs are not only for ED qualified persons.

                      All ED units have Surgical and Medical persons attched to assist in fast tracking people to the correct service.

                      Too many people watching the likes of 'ER' . Our system is absolutely the opposite of what you see on TV shows where all triage is carried out by nurses here, Doctors is about third in line unless its a major injury.



                      and then he has no place in hospital medicine as Hospital medicine has define boundaries
                      We know that in a backs to the wall scenario 200 military personnel built an expandable 4000 bed field hospital in the ExCel Centre in London , in 9 Days. It requires 16,000 staff which is being dredged up from St. Johns Ambulance, retired medical staffs, Military medical personnel, and other willing volunteers. It opens it's doors today. We must show willing. We got SBA's badged in the 60's and 70's by attaching them to busy A&E's in Major Hospitals. To keep the ship afloat we must take our turn at the pumps. When this is over, proper Military functions and potential essential supports must be reestablished.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                        We know that in a backs to the wall scenario 200 military personnel built an expandable 4000 bed field hospital in the ExCel Centre in London , in 9 Days. It requires 16,000 staff which is being dredged up from St. Johns Ambulance, retired medical staffs, Military medical personnel, and other willing volunteers. It opens it's doors today. We must show willing. We got SBA's badged in the 60's and 70's by attaching them to busy A&E's in Major Hospitals. To keep the ship afloat we must take our turn at the pumps. When this is over, proper Military functions and potential essential supports must be reestablished.
                        This discussion isn’t necessarily COVID19 related (although now everything is)

                        They took over a well maintained building which will not be available in every scenario and fitted it out... that is a very big difference (not taking away from what they have done) from a green field scenario.

                        But they don’t have the trained personnel to man it. It is supposed to be an ICU facility. That (according to NHS) requires a ICU nurse:patient ratio of max 1:2 24/7. If we assume 1:2 and 12 hour shifts. They will need 4000 ICU nurses to man it (and that is 7 day working weeks for the foreseeable). There will be some in the regular military, if there are any in the reserves changes are they are NHS and therefore already tasked.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                          EDs are not only for ED qualified persons.

                          All ED units have Surgical and Medical persons attched to assist in fast tracking people to the correct service.

                          Too many people watching the likes of 'ER' . Our system is absolutely the opposite of what you see on TV shows where all triage is carried out by nurses here, Doctors is about third in line unless its a major injury.



                          and then he has no place in hospital medicine as Hospital medicine has define boundaries
                          All trainee GPs spend the first 2 years of their 4 year specialist training in rotations in the hospital environment (including A&E).

                          The MO is fairly unique as they need to be able to give GP type services, pre-hospital care and potentially some field hospital care.

                          Currently (non military) Irish GPs provide pre hospital care via ICRR

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            All trainee GPs spend the first 2 years of their 4 year specialist training in rotations in the hospital environment (including A&E).

                            The MO is fairly unique as they need to be able to give GP type services, pre-hospital care and potentially some field hospital care.

                            Currently (non military) Irish GPs provide pre hospital care via ICRR
                            Forgive my ignorance here but what is ICRR?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              All trainee GPs spend the first 2 years of their 4 year specialist training in rotations in the hospital environment (including A&E)
                              the GP scheme is just that the GP scheme they don't specialise and have very limited experience of the specialities in the hospital as their own chosen path is a speciality unto itself.


                              This discussion isn’t necessarily COVID19 related (although now everything is)


                              And based on that on that 'I'm bowing out and self isolating from IMO until the current crises is over just as I am from all social media as I need a break from anything Covid related . Bad enough I work in a place where every second word is related to it.. and then have it a home with three HCW under the one roof and my oldest daughter also a HCW. i need a break from it all

                              So guys take it easy and look after yourselves and we'll talk in the future.
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                              • #45
                                Mind your headspace Murph.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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