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  • Excellent timing.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • Listen: Kildare TD Says Purchase Of Military Plane Would Answer Calls The Defence Forces Have Been Making For 70 Years.

      Comment


      • @GTTC,

        Can you do us all a favour and draw a line under the fact that you left the Air Corps 25 years ago, with the minimum amount of time served if memory serves me correct.

        While your stories and anecdotes are a nice to know, they most certainly always serve to show how bad things were, in your opinion of course, and are in no way reflective of how things currently are.

        Things have changed. Let it go. Enjoy the AL roster and the state pension.

        The Air Corps you once knew, 25 years ago, has very little resemblance to what it is today and while it may not be perfect, its far from the basket case you make it out to be. It is easy to spread an oponion unchallenged.

        Thanks to the other poster for clarifying. We can no move on to the next issue where you knew best.
        Last edited by Bravo20; 20 May 2020, 10:31.

        Comment


        • I must say I have always found GTTC very knowledgeable and informative and level headed especially when people are losing the run of themselves looking for a half dozen tactical transports and squadrons of fighters to escort Russian bears. I think your comment is overly personal and harsh

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
            Listen: Kildare TD Says Purchase Of Military Plane Would Answer Calls The Defence Forces Have Been Making For 70 Years.

            https://kfmradio.com/news/19052020-1...defence-forces
            What to say...… Minister of State Emmm, ahhh, emmm…..where am I... He has been in the job for a few years now and you would think that he would have learnt a little bit, but it seems not.
            How for the love of god how did he even become a TD let alone a minister?
            And then he wheels out "sure people will see it as a luxury jet for ministers". Is he stuck in the 1980's with Charlie and co? It is not the DF's fault that this image came about but people like him, there is only one aircraft which could be used for MATS and that is the Learjet. Everything else should be off limits, no use of the CASA, no VIP interior for the AW139. It is the behavior of ministers and their buddies that have generated this image not the AC. It is not their private airline and should not be abused as one.

            The only complaints I would have are
            (a) That people are mixing up grounded civil jets like B737/A320's that you could pick up for $10m and true military transports like C130/A400 that are definitely not available for the same money.
            (b) Not all the other 26 EU members have the capability; Malta, Cyprus, Croatia, Estonia, Latvia & Slovenia have no national airlift capability although some though their membership of NATO can arrange it if needed.
            But putting that last point aside we are the fourth biggest EU contributor of ground troops to the UN and that alone should be enough to justify the capability.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
              Feud murder suspect to be flown home by Air Corps on safety fear

              https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-39216401.html
              And under no circumstances is the detainee to be seated in the dodgy ejector seat , am I clear on that !
              Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Chuck View Post
                @GTTC,

                Can you do us all a favour and draw a line under the fact that you left the Air Corps 25 years ago, with the minimum amount of time served if memory serves me correct.

                While your stories and anecdotes are a nice to know, they most certainly always serve to show how bad things were, in your opinion of course, and are in no way reflective of how things currently are.

                Things have changed. Let it go. Enjoy the AL roster and the state pension.

                The Air Corps you once knew, 25 years ago, has very little resemblance to what it is today and while it may not be perfect, its far from the basket case you make it out to be. It is easy to spread an oponion unchallenged.

                Thanks to the other poster for clarifying. We can no move on to the next issue where you knew best.
                I saw this post early this morning, and decided to sleep on it before I responded.
                25 years ago the Air Corps had a fleet of 15 helicopters that were carrying troops into remote border locations, operating from naval vessels at sea, and doing long range SAR. It operated 31 fixed wing aircraft at the same time. It had a squadron of armed jets, a squadron of armed basic trainers, an executive jet that was proved to be able to circumnavigate the globe, maritime patrol aircraft, dedicated aircraft for target towing, and other army co-op duties that routinely assisted in ATCP. A total of
                It wasn't perfect, but we were in the midst of a recession. Now we have a much smaller fleet of 20 aircraft, both rotary and fixed wing, not enough pilots to fly them all, and no ATC to operate any of them 24 hours a day.
                Forgive me if I think someone who worked in an Air Corps of 46 aircraft has valid views on how the air corpse of 20 aircraft operates. Particularly given how this person still works in the aviation industry?
                I left the RDF in 2011. I left An Garda Siochana in 1997. Last time I was working at sea was 1990. Are my insights and opinions in these areas irrelevant given the time that passed, or are they more relevant because I can give an educated opinion from the outside looking in? Does the fact that I keep contact with my old colleagues in these sectors who keep me informed of current events in those sectors, and I am free to relay them here without fear of action from authorities for doing so?
                Or am I ony allowed to give opinion on my current activities? Because I can tell you filling this site with my tales of walking three dogs, trimming hedges while maintaining food sources for native black bees, and compiling stats on COVID19 while continuing to work from home in my nondescript civil service administrative job would send the readers into a frenzy I'm sure. And that is before I get to talk about my neighbour who keeps donkeys.
                Should we tell Cal Tanker to delete his youtube channel because the Iraq war was so long ago and the US army has moved on since he was a TC in 2003? I mean it's over 17 years ago.
                There are more ex military people with an interest in military matters than there is current military with an interest in military matters. If we left it to the current military we wouldnt last long, because they would be shut down quickly from commenting on their service by those in authority.
                So maybe lets just accept everyones opinions, whether retired or serving, disagree if you wish, correct them if you need to, but don't dismiss them out of hand because they left 25 years ago.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • Is this why so many seem to want a C-130 so we can land on our Supercarrier hidden in Lough Swilly?

                  https://www.military.com/video/milit.../2812569251001

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                    Is this why so many seem to want a C-130 so we can land on our Supercarrier hidden in Lough Swilly?

                    https://www.military.com/video/milit.../2812569251001
                    It's in lough derg now according to Ais.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • First of all, you and I had a PM exchange (a civil one, as I recall), that I thought had squared things away between our differing opinions. I was a bit surprised to find you popping up to throw personal digs. Second, I served for 11 years, two more than my original commitment. Third, my AL roster is two days, two nights of 10.5 to 12 hour shifts, like most of my engineering brethern so I earn every second of my days off. My EI pension will be 20% shy when I retire in 13 years time,courtesy of spineless unions. We are also just out of a 9 year pay freeze just in time for Covid 19s effects on aviation, so the glory days of EI payscales are well behind me. I served in the AC when it was a ragged organisation and it ran from crisis to crisis. I had good times there along with the bad times and it's greatest asset, as I've said on here before, was and is it's people, who are often shabbily treated by the organisation and the Govt. As for notions that I know best, rubbish. I always bow to superior knowledge and will happily step aside to allow well-educated voices to be heard. I'll even read your opinions if you play the ball and not the man.

                      Comment


                      • MOD: that’s a line drawn under it folks

                        Comment


                        • What the Taoiseach actually said in the dail last week:
                          Deputy Cathal Berry

                          It is quite rare that two medical doctors get to converse in such a magnificent debating chamber as this. It is also quite rare for a recently retired member of the Defence Forces to get to address the Taoiseach, who is also the current Minister for Defence. I would like to focus my comments this afternoon on Defence Forces issues and how they impact on the Covid-19 emergency. As always, my comments will be constructive. I come here to solve problems rather than to cause them.
                          I have three points to make. First, I thank the Taoiseach and Deputy Martin for their worthwhile response to the Labour Party's submission in the past few days, in which they promised to establish an independent statutory and standing pay review body for Defence Forces personnel. This is a hugely significant development and has the potential to transform completely the defence experience in this country between now and Christmas if it is established and structured properly.
                          I take this opportunity to thank every party and person in the Chamber, and indeed members of the media in the Gallery who have advocated so powerfully and effectively for the Defence Forces over recent years. It is rare that there is any consensus on any issue in this Chamber, but there is virtual unanimity on the issue of Defence Forces pay and everyone deserves thanks in that regard. I point out to the Labour Party that its stance on this issue has not gone unnoticed by the defence community all over the country, in every constituency.
                          I see my role here as being informative with regard to Defence Forces issues. I have read many press releases and statements in the last couple of months which are more like fairytales. They bear no resemblance whatsoever to the reality of what is happening on the ground. For example, we all voted for emergency legislation on 26 March. A sizeable chunk of that legislation related to the Defence Forces and re-enlisting and rehiring former members of the Defence Forces. Seven weeks later, it would be reasonable to assume that 40, 50 or 60 soldiers have been rehired, but the reality is that not a single one has been rehired to date. We are not even close. No interviews, medicals or Garda vetting have taken place. It is an issue we need to focus on.
                          There are a number of reasons that no one has been rehired, but the main reason is that the terms and conditions are pretty appalling. If a fully trained former soldier wishes to return to the Defence Forces to fight Covid, he or she will be offered a three-year contract. Incredibly, if he or she does not stay for the three years, he or she will be fined €300 by the Department of Defence. As incredible as that sounds, I guarantee everyone in this Chamber that it is absolutely true. I have signed off on thousands of these forms over the last 23 years. It harks back to Van Diemen's Land 200 years ago, where one had to purchase one's freedom from one's employer or master. It needs to be changed. I am sorry to have to bring such mundane and routine housekeeping issues to the Taoiseach's attention because this is definitely below his pay grade, but this is the only option. There is no internal mechanism to resolve these issues within the Department of Defence itself. If the Taoiseach could look into the matter, it would be very much appreciated.
                          Some 300 of our troops are currently stranded in Lebanon as a result of the Covid crisis. I fully understand the UN Secretary General's letter. The letter states that we should, as a general rule, keep all our peacekeeping troops in location until at least 30 June. That is all well and good. Exemptions are allowed and Ireland has submitted an application for an exemption. I totally accept and understand that. There are six issues that the Taoiseach and people in the House are most likely not aware of. There was advance warning that this letter would be issued. There was a window of opportunity to rotate our troops and that opportunity was not seized. It took Ireland 17 days to apply for an exemption, which is 17 days wasted, and we are further down on the list. Our troops, who should have been home on Tuesday, might now have to wait for another six or eight weeks in-theatre in Lebanon.
                          The real issue while our troops are still in Lebanon is that we have no military air transport. This is not normal. Every one of the EU 27 states, even tiny Malta and tiny Luxembourg, has military air transport to move its people around. That is how we got people out of Mali. We could hitch a lift on a Spanish aircraft and on a German military aircraft. The UN is paying for these rotation flights. It will cost approximately €250,000 for two return flights to Lebanon. That gives the UN a significant say over where and when the rotations take place.
                          There is a myth that if we rotate our troops out of Lebanon early, it will somehow adversely affect our case for a seat on the UN Security Council. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our two competitors on that panel are Norway and Canada, which are moving their peacekeeping personnel all around the world even as we speak. There should be no reason we should think that moving our troops out of Lebanon on time is going to affect any chance of us getting a seat on the Security Council.
                          Moving our personnel around the world is an issue of national competence. It is like taxation or public health. If Brussels decided to tell us what our tax rates should be, we would rightly tell it that it is a sovereign issue for our nation state. Similarly, having our troops in Lebanon, deploying them, redeploying them or rotating them is an issue for this House and this Oireachtas, not an issue for UN headquarters in Manhattan.
                          They are the six points I would like to raise. I would be grateful for the Taoiseach's view in this regard but this is my personal view with which perhaps he might disagree. We have sent approximately 50 Aer Lingus flights to China to pick up cargo and PPE, and rather than have our troops waiting for another six to eight weeks, could we not send two Aer Lingus flights to Beirut international airport to pick up our people and bring them home? Six months is long enough. Some of these people have not seen their families since November and we should bring them home.

                          The Taoiseach

                          It is always a pleasure to converse with somebody who is another doctor as well as another Deputy. I was feeling a bit lonely in the previous Dáil. There have usually been a few doctors in the House and I think I was the only one in the previous Dáil.

                          An Ceann Comhairle

                          Dr. Harty.

                          The Taoiseach

                          Of course. I am sorry. He is gone. It was always a pleasure to converse with Dr. Harty as well. It is good to see Deputy Berry is here as well, so there are at least two of us. I look forward to a good, robust and positive relationship.
                          As the Deputy rightly said, about 500 people have expressed an interest in rejoining the Defence Forces, which is really encouraging. Those 500 will certainly not turn into 500 re-enlistments but it would be really welcome if we could re-enlist 100 or 150 people, especially those with particular skills. We have had some pilots come back and I only signed off on that the other day. However, we would like to see people come back across the Defence Forces and into all three services as well. I am disappointed to hear that a barrier to that might be the terms and conditions, which always seem to plague progress in the Defence Forces. I will not go into too much detail on that at the moment but I will be in touch with Deputy Berry about it.
                          We have sought an exemption regarding Lebanon. It is not solely up to us, as it does involve a decision of the Lebanese authorities and the UN. We hope the rotation can happen in June. I have no objection to using commercial aircraft to bring people home, including from Beirut to Dublin, if that is a solution that works. I had not heard the myth of it affecting our SECO campaign, so it must be a myth, because if it was a problem I would have heard it. I do not know where that is coming from.
                          Military air transport is a real weakness for us. We are unusual as a country, in that we cannot get to our own troops in Lebanon or in Mali. We rely on commercial aircraft or the defence forces of other countries. That works, but it is suboptimal in my view. The Defence Forces have invested a lot in recent years in new ships, equipment and aircraft, including a Pilatus aircraft. The CASA aircraft are being replaced at the moment. I have said to the Chief of Staff that given there are so many aeroplanes on the ground at the moment, and perhaps aeroplanes are inexpensive at the moment, that this might be an opportunity for us to invest and purchase aircraft that would allow us to get our own troops back and forth to Lebanon. There is always a sensitivity around the Defence Forces buying jets, as people will know, but this would be for the use of the Defence Forces not for the use of the Government.

                          Deputy Cathal Berry

                          We are on the Taoiseach's side and we are at his service. We are at the service of any Deputy in this Chamber who assumes the role of Taoiseach. Are there problems in the Defence Forces? Yes. Have they adversely affected the performance of the Defence Forces' response to Covid-19? Yes. Can they be fixed? Yes. These are man-made problems and it is within our gift to solve them. I very much look forward to working with this Government and the next one in that regard as well
                          Covid-19 (Taoiseach): Statements Dáil Éireann debate - Thursday, 14 May 2020
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                          Comment


                          • I know it is a bit off topic, but what are the chances of Cathal Berry joining the next government as an independent minister, say the next minister of defence?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                              I know it is a bit off topic, but what are the chances of Cathal Berry joining the next government as an independent minister, say the next minister of defence?
                              Minister of Defence? Slim to nil, the Civil Service would either go on strike, or swamp the HSE with Strokes and Heart Attacks
                              'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                              'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                              Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                              He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                              http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                                I know it is a bit off topic, but what are the chances of Cathal Berry joining the next government as an independent minister, say the next minister of defence?
                                He got elected on the joint platform of Health or Defence. Either position is a poison chalice. By that definition i'd say the chances are quite likely. The only thing is, with him being local, he would haunt the DoD in Newbridge, unlike others, who would spend more time in their constituency office pressing the flesh.
                                The DoD would hate that.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                                Comment

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