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  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    There is no Irish embassy in DRC, it is in Nairobi
    https://www.dfa.ie/embassies/irish-e...c-republic-of/

    The 2 personnel live in a location “outside the wire” in Goma. The FHQ is in Goma (as is the airport not sure if co-located).

    There is a security threat to foreigners in DRC at the the moment.
    As I said Embassey in Nairobi, Aircraft and Crew can standby there and wait for the Call..

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  3. #177
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie252 View Post
    As I said Embassey in Nairobi, Aircraft and Crew can standby there and wait for the Call..
    It isn’t clear that they can even get to the FHQ

  4. #178
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    If they can't get to the FHQ then a charter aircraft is not going to help.
    Neither would sending a business jet no matter what size.

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  6. #179
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    That's why you need a bigger aircraft capable of bringing a group of people capable of expediting the safe delivery of these two officers from their current location to a safe aircraft for immediate departure home.

    We need to consider going forward, seeing as the UN clearly gives no consideration to it, the capability to deploy, and repatriate, all our people whom we deploy around the world to act on behalf of the state.
    We cannot hope that another nation will look after our people. We are playing big boys rules now, we aren't a developing nation any more.
    We are willing to deploy people anywhere overseas to show the world what great humanitarians the irish state is. When it goes wrong, it is no longer the Irish State that has the problem, it is the Defence forces.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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  8. #180
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    I was under the impression that there are 20,000 UN troops from all nations already in DRC. If they can't protect two men, what's an external force going to do?

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  10. #181
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    Something about the Goma Two does quite fit;
    Goma is the main operating base, it has an airport filled with UN aircraft and a large Indian army contingent. The Indians did not turn up with just pick-ups they have some serious opinion changers with them like BMP-2's. So even if there is a perceived problem getting the two officer to the airport the Indians could do that without a problem.

    If you check the twitter feed from MONUSCO, you see that flying ops are still going on and even this week they had MedEvac into Goma of troops injured in some fighting. Are we missing some bigger picture here again?

    Also on the MONUSCO twitter feed this week has been Capt. Carrigy (IDF), but seems to be part of a campaign about the work of female solders.

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  12. #182
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    We only know what is in the media

  13. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    We only know what is in the media
    That is why it is always good to try and get some source information to back-up what may be said in the media.
    I think we can be sure that D COS knows the true situation and that if the two were at risk there would be a contingency to bring them inside the wire at the airport.

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  15. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    I was under the impression that there are 20,000 UN troops from all nations already in DRC. If they can't protect two men, what's an external force going to do?
    https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/mission/monusco

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  17. #185
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    You might need to send that gen to Dr Barry as he was on the most recent news bulletin, referring to the Goma situation and a lack of AC airlift.

  18. #186
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    UN-Peace-from-Above.pdf

    It is an old (2017) report but gives a good oversight of UN airlift.

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  20. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Minister of Defence? Slim to nil, the Civil Service would either go on strike, or swamp the HSE with Strokes and Heart Attacks
    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/202...ent-formation/
    The HSE might need to put a few emergency response units on standby in Newbridge!

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  22. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/202...ent-formation/
    The HSE might need to put a few emergency response units on standby in Newbridge!
    Co.Kildare needs a Minister I think ????

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  24. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    That's why you need a bigger aircraft capable of bringing a group of people capable of expediting the safe delivery of these two officers from their current location to a safe aircraft for immediate departure home.
    Bigger isn't always better. Bigger aircraft need longer and well-serviced runways, which isn't always going to be available when you need it in places like Goma.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    I was under the impression that there are 20,000 UN troops from all nations already in DRC. If they can't protect two men, what's an external force going to do?
    The issue isn't lack of protection, it's the inability to repat the observers. Due to the current crisis, there is very few international flights out of the Congo. It could potentially be possible to fly from Goma to the capital and hop their way using commercial flights across Africa to Europe and then to Ireland. However, that's a very big risk to their safety and health.

    For normal troop rotations for Battalions and Inf Gps the only realistic option is chartered aircraft. Even large militaries who have large aircraft regularly use chartered aircraft for their own rotations.
    Talk of A380's and the like is just fantasy nonsense.

    A third C295 is probably the only realistic possibility. It would see a lot of use for small rotations, resupply or if a Medevac is required.

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  26. #190
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    The budget of €10m for a new aircraft seems unrealistic but is probably more than sufficient for converting two formerly maritime aircraft into transport only configuration.

  27. #191
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    The Air Corps was requested by the HSE to fly emergency call handling staff from Dublin to Co Donegal after a fire at their Dublin centre

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...fire-1.4261116

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  29. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    The budget of €10m for a new aircraft seems unrealistic but is probably more than sufficient for converting two formerly maritime aircraft into transport only configuration.
    See post #162
    There is no €10m budget, it is widely reported in the media but was not raised during the debate on the subject.

    As for the conversion of the CN-235 this has been debated at length and does not seem to be a starter. The biggest job would not be conversion but any life extension work that would need to be done. The planes will be 30 yrs old when they get replaced and even if the total hours are relatively low looking at similar aircraft you could expect a lot of wing work, replacement spars, covers, wing box etc. This is major surgery for an aircraft and unless Airbus already has a design solution it could be much more than €10m! It will depend on how much of the fatigue life is remaining and this is not just a simple hours calculation. It is based upon how many hours the aircraft have spent performing different flight phases and the associated fatigue factors.

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  31. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    See post #162
    There is no €10m budget, it is widely reported in the media but was not raised during the debate on the subject.

    As for the conversion of the CN-235 this has been debated at length and does not seem to be a starter. The biggest job would not be conversion but any life extension work that would need to be done. The planes will be 30 yrs old when they get replaced and even if the total hours are relatively low looking at similar aircraft you could expect a lot of wing work, replacement spars, covers, wing box etc. This is major surgery for an aircraft and unless Airbus already has a design solution it could be much more than €10m! It will depend on how much of the fatigue life is remaining and this is not just a simple hours calculation. It is based upon how many hours the aircraft have spent performing different flight phases and the associated fatigue factors.
    Haven't the two of them already had significant life extension work done, particularly in regards to the wing?

  32. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Haven't the two of them already had significant life extension work done, particularly in regards to the wing?
    In 2007 they got a sensor system and avionics upgrade. Any structural work would have been to get them to their expected out of service date.

    If now the aircraft are to serve beyond the expected out of service date (there will have been a margin calculated in), there will need to a full structural survey, this will find areas of damage that needs to be repaired. Then the remaining life of the other key structural parts will be calculated to see what additional work need to be done. Here one of the key parameters will be how much longer should the aircraft operate. This then gives the design goal for the structural parts and the life extension will cover this, normally with a design factor of x2.

  33. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Haven't the two of them already had significant life extension work done, particularly in regards to the wing?
    Not sure about structural but their MLU was about 13 years ago and including fitting FITS

  34. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Haven't the two of them already had significant life extension work done, particularly in regards to the wing?
    Yes

  35. #197
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    Army officers evacuated from Goma after weeks of delay

    ....The officers returned home on a multi-leg Air France flight which arrived in Dublin from Paris at 2.3pm on Sunday. ....
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...elay-1.4267026

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  37. #198
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    Leaving their weapons in the care of a french unit remaining. Not ideal.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  38. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Leaving their weapons in the care of a french unit remaining. Not ideal.
    In view of the fact the people got back safe and the weapons are not going to fall into bad hands (presumably), not a big deal, I'd have thought. One would presume the next people passing through whenever could collect them.
    Last edited by Flamingo; 31st May 2020 at 22:50.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  40. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Leaving their weapons in the care of a french unit remaining. Not ideal.
    French unit???
    Is France still a western nation?
    All the media hype was we are the only westerners left there.

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