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Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
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Originally posted by Anzac View PostHas anyone asked the minister what he would do if the deployment deteriorated, charter flights refused, commercial flights frozen, other nations were busy extracting their own troops and in country nationals first - saying we'll get to you later? It'll be like the last days of Vietnam. You can bet his name would be all over CNN, BBC, Fox et al as the guy who stranded a couple of hundred peacekeepers. Despised and shunned by society. A social pariah.It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
It was a new age...It was the end of history.
It was the year everything changed.
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The A400M recently did a flight from France to Mali, non-stop and delivered stores by parachute right to the feet of the French troops, so they are learning how to use it and it will become a mature airframe in time. It was originally designed as a turbofan aircraft but somebody insisted that it have a turboprop set up,perhaps only to differentiate it from the C-17. I'll bet you could dust off the turbofan drawings and build them as A400M II; no propellor or gearbox or vibration problems. The aircraft is essentially an Airbus and all of them can have different turbofans and I'll bet my first born that the A400M is the same.
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Originally posted by Anzac View PostIf you are considering deploying IFV's or other outsized heavy mass objects that is a sealift job not an airlift job. Best to look at a Joint Sealift capability. We flew a LAV once in a C-130 as a pointless PR exercise because the minister said that his new LAV's could be deployed that way - yeah right.
Although a lot of supplies can in by road to Afghanistan a lot of the European equipment was flown in. And was taken out the same way, again as the surface transport option were not the best. There might be an urgent need to send a few additional PIIHs to the Lebanon, the current transshipment via Rotterdam could takes a few weeks to organise.
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Originally posted by DeV View PostThe EU have an airlift organisation https://eatc-mil.com/en
They also have the EATF & EATC https://www.eda.europa.eu/what-we-do...t-fleet-(eatf)
Also for the transport fleet it is noticeable that none of the non-NATO countries are part of it.
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Lifting in any apc one at a time is not a good use of an air transport asset.
Last time we went to an inland mission, we shipped the vehicles by sea to the nearest port and they went by road, on flatbed the rest of the way.
The mistake that time was the people who provided the flatbed had no clue what they were doing.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View PostIt was originally designed as a turbofan aircraft but somebody insisted that it have a turboprop set up,perhaps only to differentiate it from the C-17. I'll bet you could dust off the turbofan drawings and build them as A400M II; no propellor or gearbox or vibration problems. The aircraft is essentially an Airbus and all of them can have different turbofans and I'll bet my first born that the A400M is the same.
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostThere might be an urgent need to send a few additional PIIHs to the Lebanon, the current transshipment via Rotterdam could takes a few weeks to organise.
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Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View PostThe A400M recently did a flight from France to Mali, non-stop and delivered stores by parachute right to the feet of the French troops, so they are learning how to use it and it will become a mature airframe in time. It was originally designed as a turbofan aircraft but somebody insisted that it have a turboprop set up,perhaps only to differentiate it from the C-17. I'll bet you could dust off the turbofan drawings and build them as A400M II; no propellor or gearbox or vibration problems. The aircraft is essentially an Airbus and all of them can have different turbofans and I'll bet my first born that the A400M is the same.
The problems with the A-400M are linked to the gearbox, something not unique to this aircraft, just look at the Cougar et al. Pratt did offer to produce an engine but French politics got in the way and so the aircraft ended up with the engine it has today. Changing to a turbofan could be possible (Do328 to Do328JET) but the problem is how many aircraft would the market support. Even if today someone decided to start a A400M-JET the development would take more than 5 years at which time the vast majority of customers will have taken delivery of their aircraft. Thus due to the lack of a market it is never going to happen.
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Originally posted by Anzac View PostOn that very rare urgent occasion UNIFIL channels would work with SAC in Hungary or participant India or one of the three NATO C-17 drivers.
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Originally posted by na grohmiti View PostLifting in any apc one at a time is not a good use of an air transport asset.
Last time we went to an inland mission, we shipped the vehicles by sea to the nearest port and they went by road, on flatbed the rest of the way.
The mistake that time was the people who provided the flatbed had no clue what they were doing.
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostOnly Sweden (outside of NATO) has access to the C-17s in Hungary. They might offer but then again they do not have to support.Last edited by Anzac; 14 May 2020, 10:44.
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While the above is true, it fails to grasp the central truth that in a situation where Ireland needs urgent, military airlift to assist an overseas operation, it's quite likely that any potential donors will also be up to their eyeballs in taskings. Whatever problem Ireland is facing is very unlikely to be happening in a vacuum...
This is why solid ownership/contracts/pooling is required, rather than ad hoc begging.
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The notion that we could charter spare civvy aircraft when required is, to my mind not a long term plan. This virus could see many operators going out of business, those remaining won't have spare aircraft parked up waiting for a random charter from IRLGOV. They'll be operating what they have in the most efficient and profitable manner. It'll be like getting a taxi on a bank holiday. They are scarce, they are busy, and you may have to wait quite a while to pay full price.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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Defence Forces trying to bring officers home from Congo amid safety fears https://t.co/frfp6X8gKP via @IrishTimes
— Conor Gallagher (@ConorGallaghe_r) May 14, 2020
As mentioned above.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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