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  1. #76
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    With talk of the C295 for overseas service, the FAP has deployed one to Mali

    * https://www.defenceweb.co.za/aerospa...li-operations/

    Not that it's necessarily the be all and end all for Air Corps transport, but it shows what can be done.

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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    With talk of the C295 for overseas service, the FAP has deployed one to Mali

    * https://www.defenceweb.co.za/aerospa...li-operations/

    Not that it's necessarily the be all and end all for Air Corps transport, but it shows what can be done.
    Portugal is an interesting country to compare to, it may have double the population but the economy is a little smaller.
    As for the Air Force it is nicely balanced force for its size with a good mix of capabilities.
    It transport and patrol fleet consists of:

    4x C-130H
    4x P-3C
    7x C-295
    5x C-295MPA

    The article is interesting in another way as it shows that other medium sized European countries also regularly send transport aircraft to Mali for 6 month periods with Denmark, Belgium and Norway mentioned.

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  5. #78
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    https://twitter.com/defenceforces/st...326664193?s=19

    https://twitter.com/IrishAirCorps/st...434237953?s=19

    The DF and Air Corps Twitter pages are both sharing photos of an aid flight to Lebanon. The aircraft involved IRL252 reached the 20,000 hour mile stone in doing so.

    Another reason that a dedicated airlift capability is required so as to the allow the very expensive C295's once they arrive, to carry out their own duties and not be diverted for flights such as these, as important as they are it is still a misuse of assets.

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  7. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilatus View Post
    https://twitter.com/defenceforces/st...326664193?s=19

    https://twitter.com/IrishAirCorps/st...434237953?s=19

    The DF and Air Corps Twitter pages are both sharing photos of an aid flight to Lebanon. The aircraft involved IRL252 reached the 20,000 hour mile stone in doing so.

    Another reason that a dedicated airlift capability is required so as to the allow the very expensive C295's once they arrive, to carry out their own duties and not be diverted for flights such as these, as important as they are it is still a misuse of assets.
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    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  9. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilatus View Post
    https://twitter.com/defenceforces/st...326664193?s=19

    https://twitter.com/IrishAirCorps/st...434237953?s=19

    The DF and Air Corps Twitter pages are both sharing photos of an aid flight to Lebanon. The aircraft involved IRL252 reached the 20,000 hour mile stone in doing so.

    Another reason that a dedicated airlift capability is required so as to the allow the very expensive C295's once they arrive, to carry out their own duties and not be diverted for flights such as these, as important as they are it is still a misuse of assets.
    Sorry. Could you define "Misuse of assets". The DF are purchasing the 295's to be able to fill many roles.Not to be a one trick pony.Primarily they will fly around ID'ing trawlers but should the DF need them to HALO drop ARW,do RESUP missions overseas or anything else the Government and DF decide then that is exactly what they have invested the taxpayers money for. I know there is a certain element,esp in the Bluffwaffe,who want "one aircraft,one mission set".Boo hoo. The budget is too small for that.

    This shit gets my goat.If Irish citizens need evac from some third world shithole are we going to turn around and tell them "Sorry.No plane today.Busy doing Maritime patrol."
    I would bloody well hope not!!
    Last edited by apod; 12th August 2020 at 16:34.
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  11. #81
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    There is another way of looking at it, the AC is buying two high end aircraft for $247m!
    It could have just bought 4 bog standard C-295s @ $35m each and had SN install the same kit on two as they are installing on the PC-12s. And we would still have had money over for the primary radar everyone seems to want.

    The argument is always that there is no need for dedicated transport aircraft and as we have seen again and again this year is that is not the case. If memory serves me correct the GOC has been asked to do an investigation into if and what we should purchase. While it is not a "misuse" as the State can use the aircraft how it likes it is not normally the case that high end MPAs are used for strategic transport.

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  13. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Sorry. Could you define "Misuse of assets". The DF are purchasing the 295's to be able to fill many roles.Not to be a one trick pony.Primarily they will fly around ID'ing trawlers but should the DF need them to HALO drop ARW,do RESUP missions overseas or anything else the Government and DF decide then that is exactly what they have invested the taxpayers money for. I know there is a certain element,esp in the Bluffwaffe,who want "one aircraft,one mission set".Boo hoo. The budget is too small for that.

    This shit gets my goat.If Irish citizens need evac from some third world shithole are we going to turn around and tell them "Sorry.No plane today.Busy doing Maritime patrol."
    I would bloody well hope not!!
    Yes the budget is too small, but yet the government can manage to find money when they need to. It's the Irish attitude of "sure it'll be grand" that prevails every time. Yes the government are happy with the jack of all trades approach.

    The new casas are maritime patrol aircraft and it's my opinion that they should be primarily used in that role and when needs be if life and limb is at risk abroad and there is no other way to get them out then yes they should be used then.

    But what happens if hypothetically an aircraft is sent to wherever to evac Irish abroad, the second aircraft is down for maintenance and there happens to be a disaster or impending disaster at sea and you can't get an aircraft out to contribute or provide top cover and there's loss of life. One is none and two is one. Even if the aircraft are being sent abroad they don't have the self defense equipment, chaff, flares jammers to give them and the souls they are trying to save, a chance if someone takes a potshot at them with a SAM.

    If the Air Corps are to be called on when they are needed which is usually at the worst time then yes God forbid they have the equipment needed to carry out the roles assigned to them.
    Last edited by pilatus; 12th August 2020 at 17:16.

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  15. #83
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Yes the budget is too small, but yet the government can manage to find money when they need to. It's the Irish attitude of "sure it'll be grand" that prevails every time. Yes the government are happy with the jack of all trades approach.
    No.It is far from Grand.But the reality of the situation is that the DoD have,and continue to,hold the DF back.So the DF has developed a make do attitude and tries to get the most "bang for its buck" from its assets.


    The new casas are maritime patrol aircraft and it's my opinion that they should be primarily used in that role and when needs be if life and limb is at risk abroad and there is no other way to get them out then yes they should be used then.
    Opinions are like assholes.Everyone has one.Good job your's is not the one that decides how we employ our assets.

    But what happens if hypothetically an aircraft is sent to wherever to evac Irish abroad, the second aircraft is down for maintenance and there happens to be a disaster or impending disaster at sea and you can't get an aircraft out to contribute or provide top cover and there's loss of life. One is none and two is one. Even if the aircraft are being sent abroad they don't have the self defense equipment, chaff, flares jammers to give them and the souls they are trying to save, a chance.
    I guess that why people with much bigger paychecks than mine get to make the hard decisions.I would love you to be the one to advise the Cabinet in the event of Irish Citizens needing bringing home that "We can't deploy our aircraft Minister,just in case there is another incident while they are gone".Love to be a fly on the wall if the media got a hold of that one if there were Irish Citizens trapped or Held Hostage abroad.
    No. You deal with the situation you HAVE at the time.Not one you MIGHT have if you have to decide to deploy an asset. Oh and BTW. Don't be so sure about what the 295's will be fitted with. Some things are not made public knowledge for a reason.

    If the Air Corps are to be called on when they are needed which is usually at the worst time then yes God forbid they have the equipment needed to carry out the roles assigned to them.
    At last we agree. 100% bang on. AC should have BOTH MPA and Utility transport Aircraft. In and ideal world. Of course we live in a less than ideal world.Controlled by bean counters who will NEVER have to put themselves in harms way. We have what we have. Let's use them as we need to use them.

    You want to tell these lads they can't have a plane to bring them out and back if the shit hits the fan abroad?
    Casa Troop Lift (1).jpg
    Last edited by apod; 12th August 2020 at 17:37.
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  17. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    No.It is far from Grand.But the reality of the situation is that the DoD have,and continue to,hold the DF back.So the DF has developed a make do attitude and tries to get the most "bang for its buck" from its assets.



    Opinions are like assholes.Everyone has one.Good job your's is not the one that decides how we employ our assets.


    I guess that why people with much bigger paychecks than mine get to make the hard decisions.I would love you to be the one to advise the Cabinet in the event of Irish Citizens needing bringing home that "We can't deploy our aircraft Minister,just in case there is another incident while they are gone".Love to be a fly on the wall if the media got a hold of that one if there were Irish Citizens trapped or Held Hostage abroad.
    No. You deal with the situation you HAVE at the time.Not one you MIGHT have if you have to decide to deploy an asset. Oh and BTW. Don't be so sure about what the 295's will be fitted with. Some things are not made public knowledge for a reason.


    At last we agree. 100% bang on. AC should have BOTH MPA and Utility transport Aircraft. In and ideal world. Of course we live in a less than ideal world.Controlled by bean counters who will NEVER have to put themselves in harms way. We have what we have. Let's use them as we need to use them.

    You want to tell these lads they can't have a plane to bring them out and back if the shit hits the fan abroad?
    Casa Troop Lift (1).jpg
    You are misinterpreting what I am saying and it appears you are taking this as some sort of attack because we have different views.

    No where did I say they shouldn't be used in that capacity, you play the hand your dealt, what I'm saying is that they shouldn't be in a position where they have to compromise and use assets that could be of more use else where. The Gov should pony up the funds so people don't have to make decisions that could cost life's.

    Why would I want to tell the lads they can't get a plane ride out if needed, incase you didn't notice I am obviously very behind the idea that they should. I know lots of the lads that hitch rides on these planes and the crew that operate them and most of them would share my opinion that they are not properly equipped and funded to do what is asked of them quite regularly.

    Well if there is any self defense suite fitted it will be quite evident when photos of the aircraft emerge, perhaps not the jammers but definitely chaff and flare dispensers. If they are included I'd be quite surprised but very happy.

    Maybe it was the word "misuse" I used that has irked you so much, fair enough maybe I could have worded it better.

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  19. #85
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    Sure can't MOWAG MRVs be used for mini-bus runs to Centra and back

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  21. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilatus View Post
    https://twitter.com/defenceforces/st...326664193?s=19

    https://twitter.com/IrishAirCorps/st...434237953?s=19

    The DF and Air Corps Twitter pages are both sharing photos of an aid flight to Lebanon. The aircraft involved IRL252 reached the 20,000 hour mile stone in doing so.

    Another reason that a dedicated airlift capability is required so as to the allow the very expensive C295's once they arrive, to carry out their own duties and not be diverted for flights such as these, as important as they are it is still a misuse of assets.
    If you think that is bad, the RAF is using A400 and Sentinel aircraft to buzz the refugees crossing the English Channel.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  23. #87
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    I don't think it's bad. It's important to help out when possible. But yeah the RAF A400's is definitely a bit of a waste.

  24. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    If you think that is bad, the RAF is using A400 and Sentinel aircraft to buzz the refugees crossing the English Channel.
    They've moved on to using a P8 today for the patrol.

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