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  • If this article doesn't scream the need for military transport aircraft, nothing will. Yet again we have to expect our old rulers will bail us out.

    “Twenty-four hours later we arrived in Lima and were greeted by British soldiers. It was surreal.
    “The airport was completely closed, so we were taking off from the military airbase in Lima.
    Although commercial flights had all but ground to a halt, some airlines were offering chartered flights.
    At one stage, Irish and British embassy staff were offering a flight out through a private Colombian company, Avianca.
    Irish citizens were advised via email that the company was “considering” arranging a chartered plane from Lima to London that weekend, March 21/22.
    They also said they would also put in place a connecting flight from Cusco to Lima to connect with this London flight.
    However, the price was “likely” to be $3,500 one way economy class and $7,500 business class - a price people were told reflected “what is involved in negotiating permissions from the authorities”.
    While some like Mr Cotter were prepared to pay for economy seats, others simply couldn’t afford the prices and everyone eventually resigned themselves to having to remain for longer in their accommodation.
    So, in the days before flights to and from Ireland were banned on March 16 all the diplomatic staff were in the office on the phones calling people directly, and warning them about possible problems with flights if they wanted to leave.
    “But we had noticed that although they had banned other people's flights, some flights still continued to go out and there was a grace period.
    “That was kind of our impetus to then start talking to the airlines directly.”
    Thanks to a call she had made to her opposite number in Dublin at the start of the crisis, she found out about a flight the Turkish government were sending to Dublin.
    As well as getting permission to take Irish citizens out of Turkey, she also had to quickly arrange for the plane to be allowed land in Dublin with passengers on board. “Turkish Airlines had permission to land an empty airplane into Dublin but not an aircraft with people on board,” she recalled.
    “We were phoning up at midnight to Department of Justice and Department of Transport officials and Dublin Airport over the weekend.
    “We wanted to give them a heads up there would be a request coming in.”
    As well as getting Irish citizens out, the flight was helpful for other reasons too. She contacted other embassies and offered them space on the plane - a favour they would later return.
    “Because we knew that a flight was happening, we contacted other EU embassies and the UK here to say we can get people into Ireland, would that be useful for you?” she said.
    In total, about 30 were on board, from Ireland, Sweden, Turkey, Portugal, the UK and America.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      If this article doesn't scream the need for military transport aircraft, nothing will. Yet again we have to expect our old rulers will bail us out.
      https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...c-1002559.html
      In fairness, this is something EU countries do work together on in a time of crisis (probably multi-laterally rather than via the EU) as they also do so on deportations. In fact deportations would be a good use of such an asset as it is more secure. It would probably be too much aircraft for extractions.

      Also in fairness, Aer Lingus and Ryanair evacuated Irish citizens from Spain (booking and seat fees waved and larger aircraft put on the route).

      That is not to say that it wouldn't have utility for the AC to be able to do so.
      Last edited by DeV; 31 May 2020, 13:16.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
        Maybe a water bomber isn’t necessarily a bad idea

        There is a major fire 500 metres from the Enfield Explosives Factory

        https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...66797?mode=amp
        There is an EU frame work for this where certain countries focus on these. Portugal for one, so if we need one, we can request one. No need to keep one around.

        Comment


        • The 2 Irish officers in Goma are back in Ireland

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          • The Polish Air Force flies a Casa to the UK every week to carry out deportations of Polish people who are being sent home by the UK police, rather than having them in jail in the UK. That's every week, for Polish citizens on Polish warrants, from minor stuff right up to murder. So, that's either a waste of a military transport and the associated police resources or a first class use of an aircraft and policemen, depending on your point of view........As for embassies helping each other, that has long been a characteristic of Irish and British embassies in Africa and parts of Asia. They often stand in for each other and will help each other's citizens, from full embassies right down to honorary consuls. In fact, a lot of interaction is done to help people without necessarily informing London or Dublin first.

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            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
              There isn't loads of surplus Js about. Most surplus hercs, i.e off the shelf, are either the H model or the H with the extended fuselage (by Marshall of Cambridge).
              The RAF have retired 9 of their 10 C130J standard length Hercules. 5 went to Bangladesh, 2 to Bahrain and 1 to the US Marines Blue Angels to replace Fat Albert. The unit to the Marines cost $29 million and according to an article on "the drive" website saved the corps paying $80 million for a new build. There is still 1 stored in the UK that some country will get a good deal on. If only we had been in the market for an aircraft when they were available.
              Last edited by pilatus; 1 June 2020, 11:44.

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              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                Bambi buchet dropping a ton at a time not enough for you?
                How many do we have?

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                • A friend of mine worked in Marshalls of Cambridge, repairing Hercules, carrying out sheet metal repairs and was involved, way back when, on the stretching of RAF C-130s. He said that customer C-130s tended to be in very bad shape by the time they arrived in Cambridge to be overhauled, so that, in effect, they were rebuilding them from the ground up, to be as near to a new build as possible. So a potential C-130 user would be faced with the choice of buying a second-hand aircraft and rolling the dice on it's condition or taking the financial hit on a new one.

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                  • Kehoe said that Chief of Staff has been tasked with preparing a report about military airlift.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                      Kehoe said that Chief of Staff has been tasked with preparing a report about military airlift.
                      We knew that from the outset. The question is what will come of the report.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                      Comment


                      • Related

                        Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney has said that over 1,000 Irish citizens are overseas and want to return home.

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                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          We knew that from the outset. The question is what will come of the report.
                          And whether it will be listened to...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                            Kehoe said that Chief of Staff has been tasked with preparing a report about military airlift.
                            This is the excerpt from Deputy Kehoe. It's the third paragraph, I left in the first two, because it is Air Corps related:

                            "I compliment the Air Corps for its assistance with regard to Covid-19. I am delighted that the Government was able to commit €265 million for the acquisition of six new aircraft. On 2 April 2020, we took delivery of a new Pilatus PC-12 worth €5.2 million. In July, we are scheduled to take delivery of a further three PC-12 aircraft worth €39 million.

                            These will be well equipped and will have intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance capabilities. They will be an important piece of kit for the Air Corps. In December, I signed a contract to replace the two 26 year old C-295 maritime patrol aircraft to the value of €221.6 million.

                            There has been discussion recently regarding strategic lift. The Taoiseach spoke about it in the House last week. We have tasked the Chief of Staff to prepare an options paper in that regard, inclusive of what use Ireland, as a country, might have for it. Other countries do have it and it is fantastic to have. In recent years, aircraft availability was never an issue in terms of transporting military personnel from overseas. There were other issues rather than the availability of aircraft. It would be fantastic if we did have our own lift capacity but we have to ensure value for money for the taxpayer in circumstances where we make investments."
                            Last edited by pilatus; 3 June 2020, 22:53.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              We knew that from the outset. The question is what will come of the report.
                              I suspect that the DoD will view providing the report to be the end of the matter.
                              'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                              'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                              Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                              He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                              http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                              Comment


                              • Deputy Kehoe was also later quizzed about airlift numerous times and he replied:


                                "The Chief of Staff has been tasked with coming up with some options or a discussion paper on this. If we are going to buy such an aircraft we have to ensure that, given that it will be funded by the taxpayers, it will not be used for only 100 days a year.

                                We need to ensure there is due use of this. We need to bring other areas into the discussion as well as the Defence Forces. As I have said previously in my tenure in the Department, we have never previously not had the availability of aircraft to bring members home from missions. This year we did because we do not have an aircraft available and we were unable to bring two members home from Congo. We have the smaller jet, but it would have taken at least seven hops - three stoppages on the way down, a stoppage in Congo and three stoppages on the way back with very difficult challenges in trying to do that. I understand where the Deputy is coming from. However, if we are to invest in such an aircraft, we need to give good tangible reasons for needing it and what we might be able to use it for in the future.

                                I am very much in favour of airlift capacity. It would be brilliant to have it. As the Deputy knows, however, it costs a great deal of money. I would be supportive of any Government proposing to buy that capacity. I am delighted to be able to say that during my tenure in the Department we have been able to invest some €265 million in aircraft for the Air Corps.

                                On the specific issue of an airlift carrier, we must be able to demonstrate to the taxpayer the reasons for having one. We must have good and tangible reasons. It would cost a substantial amount of money, so we would need to demonstrate to the taxpayer what use we would make of it and that we would get the best use possible out of it if the Government decided to buy one. The next Government will face some very difficult economic challenges. If that decision is made, we will need to be able to demonstrate to the taxpayer why we need one.

                                .
                                "
                                Last edited by pilatus; 3 June 2020, 23:07.

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