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  • #76
    Interesting line up for the NSSI webinar on air mobility:

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    • #77
      Originally posted by CTU View Post
      If it was the US Marshals who organised it, then surely it may have even been one of their own aircraft.

      https://www.usmarshals.gov/jpats/
      Unlikely, they have a few clapped out 737s and a Saab 2000, and interestingly the Justice Prisoner and Alien Transportation System is very like a regular air line, they have flight schedules and even their own terminal (transfer prison) in Oklahoma City, à la Con Air.

      Its unlikely they would divert one plane for one extradition, its probably just easier and more convenient to charter the Gulfstream.

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      • #78
        Just looking at the twitter mentions, the only one I don't follow is Mr Kehoe.
        Buying onto the SAC group would seem to be the most useful option, but nice to see the Hercules get mentioned too.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • #79
          Some great points coming out of the webinar so far, based on the twitter feed alone. Head of the SAC operation just begun speaking. Earlier, the NZ military freight operation was seen as an ideal example to follow.
          Whether anyone with the power to change things will pay attention, is a whole other story.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

            Not a fan personally.
            History shows that large aircraft have failed in the large dump of water for firefighting, causing wing folding upwards, and in one case fuel leak and explosion. They were designed as troop transports or refuellers where everything happens in slow time. Get a transport plane by all means but not for dumping water.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
              History shows that large aircraft have failed in the large dump of water for firefighting, causing wing folding upwards, and in one case fuel leak and explosion. They were designed as troop transports or refuellers where everything happens in slow time. Get a transport plane by all means but not for dumping water.
              Not quiet true.
              Most large military transporter, C130 included, are design to air drop large loads; a case in point is the M551 Sheridan Light Tanks out of the back of a C-130, normally with LAPES. The sudden movement of CG and loads caused are less than what a water drop would be. If you look into the reports on the failures then what becomes apparent are the underlying causes; old aircraft with fatigue issue, poor maintenance and low level of pilot training.

              A well maintained modern transport aircraft with a competent crew is in no greater danger dropping water than it would be dropping any other heavy load at low level.
              Last edited by EUFighter; 26 May 2020, 16:54.

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              • #82
                Look, no.
                It's fine for the Amazon where you have thousands of square miles of inaccessable forest, or the Outback in Australia, but there is very little of the miniscule irish forests that cannot be accessed by foot in under an hour from the nearest roadway. As for deploying elsewhere to fight fires, that is so much not our job, and while there are still Canadair super scoopers flying, we won't be needed anyway. If the world is burning to that extent, water bombing will be the least of your problems.
                It's like earthquake insurance.
                Move on to somewhing we actually need it for.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                  Look, no.
                  It's fine for the Amazon where you have thousands of square miles of inaccessable forest, or the Outback in Australia, but there is very little of the miniscule irish forests that cannot be accessed by foot in under an hour from the nearest roadway. As for deploying elsewhere to fight fires, that is so much not our job, and while there are still Canadair super scoopers flying, we won't be needed anyway. If the world is burning to that extent, water bombing will be the least of your problems.
                  It's like earthquake insurance.
                  Move on to somewhing we actually need it for.
                  I was only responding to the technical feasibility of a fixed wing solution.

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                  • #84
                    Kehoe has it sorted

                    Last edited by sofa; 27 May 2020, 00:25.

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                    • #85
                      Apparently they are now looking a troop rotation not withdrawal

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by sofa View Post
                        I can't see this, I'm just brought to the default twitter page.

                        Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        Apparently they are now looking a troop rotation not withdrawal

                        https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...63191?mode=amp
                        Paywall, can you quote the important bits?
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          I can't see this, I'm just brought to the default twitter page.
                          Think of a Junior Minister flying on the door of an AW139



                          Paywall, can you quote the important bits?
                          Basically they are looking at rotating out the 2 officers currently with MONUSCO and sending out their 3 replacements.

                          Quoting Irish Times:

                          The Defence Forces has ordered officers to prepare to deploy to a troubled region of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) at short notice, raising further concerns about troop safety.

                          Two Irish officers are currently assigned to the city of Goma in the east of the country as part of the Monusco UN mission.

                          The security situation in the region has deteriorated significantly in recent weeks due to political instability and the coronavirus pandemic, leading to other EU countries to pull their peacekeepers out of the area.

                          Earlier this month, the Defence Forces General Staff advised the Government about concerns for the officers’ safety and has recommended they be evacuated as a matter of urgency. The Government agreed but declined to send the Ministerial Air Transport Service, commonly known as the Government jet, to the DRC due to concerns about its range.

                          Other options which explored were chartering an aircraft or having the officers fly home commercially.

                          Confusion

                          This week the Defence Forces issued an order that the officers originally assigned to replace those in the DRC should be ready to deploy at minimum notice, leading to confusion about plans to drawdown the mission due to the security situation.

                          “It is increasingly looking like they want to rotate the Irish contingent, not evacuate it,” a military source said.

                          The order states that the replacement officers must be ready to spend 14 days in quarantine at a military training installation in Ireland before flying out, as per UN guidelines.

                          Related
                          UN grants exemption to allow Irish troops to return from Lebanon
                          Irish Air Corps will not ground helicopter fleet after door fell off mid-flight
                          Air Corps helicopter door falls from sky into Clondalkin school grounds
                          If a rotation does go ahead, three officers will fly out and the two officers, a captain and a lieutenant colonel, will fly home, most likely on a commercial flight after leaving their weapons behind.

                          “Instead of having two officers in harm’s way, we will now have three. As usual none of it makes any sense,” the source said.


                          The Irish contingent live in a private apartment in Goma rather than in a secure compound, raising concerns for their safety.

                          Ireland is campaigning for a seat on the UN security council, with the vote scheduled for June 17th. Some senior officers and retired personnel have expressed the view the Government is reluctant to draw down the mission in case it damages Ireland’s chances of a seat.

                          “PR is now the driving factor,” said Independent TD and former Army Ranger Wing deputy commander Cathal Berry. “And that’s a very dangerous place to be.”

                          A Defence Forces spokesman said there is “no change” to Ireland’s commitment to the DRC mission but that any deployment must be guided by UN protocols, access to the mission area and the challenges of the Covid-19 pandemic.

                          Transport options

                          The dilemma has highlighted the Defence Forces’ lack of aircraft capable of repatriating troops at short notice. More than 300 troops serving on the Unifil mission in Lebanon are not able to rotate home until the end of June in part due to a lack of long-range transport options.

                          The Department of Defence said there is a requirement to extract the officers for a medical assessment as they are now past their initial six month deployment period.

                          It did not mention concerns about the security situation.

                          “Both the Department and the Defence Forces are considering all available options to secure the return of these personnel at the earliest possible opportunity. However, there are a number of complexities that remain to be worked through, such as the transport of their weapons and ammunition.”

                          Returning the officers safely and quickly “takes precedence over any other secondary issue,” it said.

                          The subject was discussed at a online seminar organised by the Slándáil National Security Summit on Tuesday.

                          Slovakian ambassador to Ireland Igor Pokojny described how his country’s airlift programme was vital, not just for moving troops but for evacuating civilians from disaster areas. Other speakers suggested Ireland could take part in a pooled air transport programme with other European countries to reduce cost.

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                          • #88


                            The Webinar in full. That's the evening viewing sorted.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              I can't see this, I'm just brought to the default twitter page.

                              Try this



                              Looks a little bit Spidey to me ....
                              Last edited by Orion; 27 May 2020, 18:55.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Orion View Post
                                Try this



                                Looks a little bit Spidey to me ....
                                Not guilty
                                'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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