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View Poll Results: What type of transport aircraft does the Air Corps need?

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  • Military transport aircraft such as C130J/A400M

    23 79.31%
  • Civilian airliner capable of carrying freight

    6 20.69%
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  1. #26
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    What RFP is that from Dev?
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  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Do EADS do trade ins?
    Bit difficult, EADS no longer exists, it transformed into Airbus in 2008.

    At the moment I think you would get a good deal on a new aircraft without the trade-in.
    Last edited by EUFighter; 19th May 2020 at 15:40.

  4. #28
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    If we do get a dedicated utility C-295 or two, a function they could add that was not in the RfP is firefighting.
    https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...programme.html
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYsAh2s_b5Y

    Years ago if someone had said we have a fire season in Ireland I would have laughed, but now with regularity we see the AC out fighting fires. A suitably equipped C-295 would be an asset that could be quickly and easily deployed giving support to the AW-139's used today.

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  6. #29
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    Sorry, Got confused because they still build them in the ADS plant in Spain.
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  7. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    If we do get a dedicated utility C-295 or two, a function they could add that was not in the RfP is firefighting.
    https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...programme.html
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYsAh2s_b5Y

    Years ago if someone had said we have a fire season in Ireland I would have laughed, but now with regularity we see the AC out fighting fires. A suitably equipped C-295 would be an asset that could be quickly and easily deployed giving support to the AW-139's used today.

    Not a fan personally.
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  8. #31
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    What RFP is that from Dev?
    The one for the maritime patrol aircraft that led to the C295 being selected for the AC
    Last edited by DeV; 19th May 2020 at 16:07.

  9. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    I was surprised by the CPFH for the C-130H as the figures they gave in the C-130J SAR for both aircraft were around the same value, the C-130H being a little lower.
    It costs a lot to keep 50 year old planes in the air mainly due to the scarcity of parts and the time fixing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    But that is only the CPFH, a C17 lifts more and flies faster.
    Thus on a 5.5hr mission a C-17 will lift 71,214kg a distance of 2420nm, a C-130J will lift 15,422kg a distance of 1800nm. So looking at kg/nm the C-17 has a massive advantage over the C-130J. But as we both know, the mix will be different, it will not always be flying such load, there will be training fights without cargo, flight with troops etc. But I was surprised how cheap the C-17 was to operate, and if you want medium/long distance cargo then it seems a great fit.
    Sadly they are not making them anymore.

  10. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post

    Not a fan personally.
    "The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows: the inflight failure of the right wing due to fatigue cracking in the center wing lower skin and underlying structural members. A factor contributing to the accident was inadequate maintenance procedures to detect fatigue cracking."

    As it was not the only crash in 2002 further investigations showed that pilots were regularly pulling almost 4g in low level drops. Something they would expect from a fighter but not a fire fighting aircraft. The FAA did later tighten up a lot and although aerial fire fighting like all fire fighting remains risky it is today a lot safer.

  11. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    Sadly they are not making them anymore.
    Yes, sadly, that is Boeing. They didn't like the SoCal sun, prefer rainy NW.

  12. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    What RFP is that from Dev?
    Accidental click of the dislike button here, apologies!
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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  14. #36
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    Belgium has a nice A321, introduced in 2014. One of it's first jobs was a trip to Mali. Belgium leased it from HIFLI.
    Ireland has a long history of aircraft leasing. Surely government could get a competitive deal from one of these companies?
    https://www.flightglobal.com/belgian...0h7SPg.twitter
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  16. #37
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  18. #38
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    https://twitter.com/slandail_nssi/st...682550274?s=21

    Slan Dail are doing a webinar on this very subject on 26 May

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  20. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Belgium has a nice A321, introduced in 2014. One of it's first jobs was a trip to Mali. Belgium leased it from HIFLI.
    Ireland has a long history of aircraft leasing. Surely government could get a competitive deal from one of these companies?
    https://www.flightglobal.com/belgian...0h7SPg.twitter
    HiFly have being providing wet leased aircraft to Belgium for many years now, the have an A380 if you still want one!

  21. #40
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    Last edited by madmark; 20th May 2020 at 20:23.
    Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

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  23. #41
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    We had this discussion before and it doesn't seem to be a popular choice on IMO. However it does appear to be cheap, though whether you would get a C MK3 for EUR 10million... I still am of the opinion that the versatility of the C Mk3 (QC) is what the IAC requires but the expert view is that it is an unreliable aircraft and who am I to argue with that.

  24. #42
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    Well one that is still flyable is a lot better than one that is destined to be used as a ground based training unit for fire & rescue or the ARW.
    I think though, that it might take five or six trips to move one of overseas deployed units, and in very little comfort for any flight going further than Paris.
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  25. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Well one that is still flyable is a lot better than one that is destined to be used as a ground based training unit for fire & rescue or the ARW.
    I think though, that it might take five or six trips to move one of overseas deployed units, and in very little comfort for any flight going further than Paris.
    Very true. There's no doubt that they are not ideal but when you see amounts of EUR 10 million being mentioned there really is no/little alternative. The comfort may be addressed somewhat in the C MK3 in that in full passenger config it carries 95, presumably 19 rows X 5 compared to its civil equivalent 146-200 112 passengers in 19 rows X 6. The range would also require a refueling stop half way to Beirut/Tel Aviv/Haifa.

  26. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ias View Post
    Very true. There's no doubt that they are not ideal but when you see amounts of EUR 10 million being mentioned there really is no/little alternative. The comfort may be addressed somewhat in the C MK3 in that in full passenger config it carries 95, presumably 19 rows X 5 compared to its civil equivalent 146-200 112 passengers in 19 rows X 6. The range would also require a refueling stop half way to Beirut/Tel Aviv/Haifa.
    More likely two refueling stops en-route to Beirut, was a stretch to make it back to Dub from Malaga direct.

  27. #45
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    The BAe146's that the RAF got are -100's from 1986, one will go to the RAF museum (even if not announced) and the rest will be sold and parted out. BAe stopped making the 146 in 1993 and the next generation RJ was last made in 2000. Given the effect of Covid-19 on the commercial market many of the older aircraft now on the ground will never fly again. This means that there are plenty of new, more efficient, bigger aircraft now available. For $10m today it would be possible to get a Boeing 767-300 that is around 20yrs old.

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  29. #46
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    There is another way to get aircraft, leasing, just as Saab does with the JAS39's. Airbus is not only a manufacturer of aircraft it also finances and leases them so maybe that would be the route to go.

    So if we convince the Austrians, Finns and Swedes to develop a joint Airlift Wing with the following composition:
    6x C-295
    2x A321XLR
    12x A400M

    What would it cost per year?
    Based upon the commercial dry lease rates the bundle would cost around $331m p/a, the operational costs would add $98m p/a based upon 600hr/y, except the A321 which do double. That gives a yearly cost of around $429m, or €373m based upon a $/€ of 1.15.
    But we would not need to cover the entire cost, so let's say we take 20%, that means a yearly cost of $74m.
    Last edited by EUFighter; 21st May 2020 at 09:34.

  30. #47
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    Tabloids this morning saying it was fine to Charter a Gulfstream to Extradite a criminal to the USA for the sale of Rhino Horns.
    And yet our 2 officers remain stuck in Africa...
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  31. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Tabloids this morning saying it was fine to Charter a Gulfstream to Extradite a criminal to the USA for the sale of Rhino Horns.
    And yet our 2 officers remain stuck in Africa...
    They left out the bit that the US paid for that flight, not sure if they also organised it

  32. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    They left out the bit that the US paid for that flight, not sure if they also organised it
    If it was the US Marshals who organised it, then surely it may have even been one of their own aircraft.

    https://www.usmarshals.gov/jpats/
    Last edited by CTU; 25th May 2020 at 17:23.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

  33. #50
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    Interesting line up for the NSSI webinar on air mobility:
    https://twitter.com/RACO_DF/status/1264931989100138499

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