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View Poll Results: What type of transport aircraft does the Air Corps need?

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  • Military transport aircraft such as C130J/A400M

    23 79.31%
  • Civilian airliner capable of carrying freight

    6 20.69%
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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Bambi buchet dropping a ton at a time not enough for you?
    How many do we have?

  2. #102
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    A friend of mine worked in Marshalls of Cambridge, repairing Hercules, carrying out sheet metal repairs and was involved, way back when, on the stretching of RAF C-130s. He said that customer C-130s tended to be in very bad shape by the time they arrived in Cambridge to be overhauled, so that, in effect, they were rebuilding them from the ground up, to be as near to a new build as possible. So a potential C-130 user would be faced with the choice of buying a second-hand aircraft and rolling the dice on it's condition or taking the financial hit on a new one.

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  4. #103
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    Kehoe said that Chief of Staff has been tasked with preparing a report about military airlift.

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  6. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Kehoe said that Chief of Staff has been tasked with preparing a report about military airlift.
    We knew that from the outset. The question is what will come of the report.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  7. #105
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  8. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    We knew that from the outset. The question is what will come of the report.
    And whether it will be listened to...

  9. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Kehoe said that Chief of Staff has been tasked with preparing a report about military airlift.
    This is the excerpt from Deputy Kehoe. It's the third paragraph, I left in the first two, because it is Air Corps related:

    "I compliment the Air Corps for its assistance with regard to Covid-19. I am delighted that the Government was able to commit €265 million for the acquisition of six new aircraft. On 2 April 2020, we took delivery of a new Pilatus PC-12 worth €5.2 million. In July, we are scheduled to take delivery of a further three PC-12 aircraft worth €39 million.

    These will be well equipped and will have intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance capabilities. They will be an important piece of kit for the Air Corps. In December, I signed a contract to replace the two 26 year old C-295 maritime patrol aircraft to the value of €221.6 million.

    There has been discussion recently regarding strategic lift. The Taoiseach spoke about it in the House last week. We have tasked the Chief of Staff to prepare an options paper in that regard, inclusive of what use Ireland, as a country, might have for it. Other countries do have it and it is fantastic to have. In recent years, aircraft availability was never an issue in terms of transporting military personnel from overseas. There were other issues rather than the availability of aircraft. It would be fantastic if we did have our own lift capacity but we have to ensure value for money for the taxpayer in circumstances where we make investments."
    Last edited by pilatus; 3rd June 2020 at 21:53.

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  11. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    We knew that from the outset. The question is what will come of the report.
    I suspect that the DoD will view providing the report to be the end of the matter.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  12. #109
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    Deputy Kehoe was also later quizzed about airlift numerous times and he replied:


    "The Chief of Staff has been tasked with coming up with some options or a discussion paper on this. If we are going to buy such an aircraft we have to ensure that, given that it will be funded by the taxpayers, it will not be used for only 100 days a year.

    We need to ensure there is due use of this. We need to bring other areas into the discussion as well as the Defence Forces. As I have said previously in my tenure in the Department, we have never previously not had the availability of aircraft to bring members home from missions. This year we did because we do not have an aircraft available and we were unable to bring two members home from Congo. We have the smaller jet, but it would have taken at least seven hops - three stoppages on the way down, a stoppage in Congo and three stoppages on the way back with very difficult challenges in trying to do that. I understand where the Deputy is coming from. However, if we are to invest in such an aircraft, we need to give good tangible reasons for needing it and what we might be able to use it for in the future.

    I am very much in favour of airlift capacity. It would be brilliant to have it. As the Deputy knows, however, it costs a great deal of money. I would be supportive of any Government proposing to buy that capacity. I am delighted to be able to say that during my tenure in the Department we have been able to invest some €265 million in aircraft for the Air Corps.

    On the specific issue of an airlift carrier, we must be able to demonstrate to the taxpayer the reasons for having one. We must have good and tangible reasons. It would cost a substantial amount of money, so we would need to demonstrate to the taxpayer what use we would make of it and that we would get the best use possible out of it if the Government decided to buy one. The next Government will face some very difficult economic challenges. If that decision is made, we will need to be able to demonstrate to the taxpayer why we need one.

    .
    "
    Last edited by pilatus; 3rd June 2020 at 22:07.

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  14. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilatus View Post
    Deputy Kehoe was also later quizzed about the report again and he replied:


    "[I]The Chief of Staff has been tasked with coming up with some options or a discussion paper on this. If we are going to buy such an aircraft we have to ensure that, given that it will be funded by the taxpayers, it will not be used for only 100 days a year.
    So is he saying they won't buy one if its not used more then on average Twice a Week?
    On average how much is the Learjet used over a normal Week/Month?
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  16. #111
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    Other than defence does Deputy Kehoe have any other ministerial portfolios?

  17. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    So is he saying they won't buy one if its not used more then on average Twice a Week?
    On average how much is the Learjet used over a normal Week/Month?
    The usage figures are available to view on the Defence website. They do not include other flights such as air ambulance, service support etc.

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  19. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    So is he saying they won't buy one if its not used more then on average Twice a Week?
    That is very well put when you say it that way

  20. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Other than defence does Deputy Kehoe have any other ministerial portfolios?
    An Taoiseach Leo Varadkar TD in the Minister for Defence

    Paul Kehoe TD is the Minister of State with Responsibility for Defence






    We all know his real appointment is the Minister for Wexford

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  22. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    An Taoiseach Leo Varadkar TD in the Minister for Defence

    Paul Kehoe TD is the Minister of State with Responsibility for Defence






    We all know his real appointment is the Minister for Wexford
    Was he not at one point also Chief Whip back in the early years?
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

  23. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    An Taoiseach Leo Varadkar TD in the Minister for Defence

    Paul Kehoe TD is the Minister of State with Responsibility for Defence






    We all know his real appointment is the Minister for Wexford
    Thanks I'm aware of the distinction just wondering if Paul Kehoe TD devotes all his time to defence

  24. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Other than defence does Deputy Kehoe have any other ministerial portfolios?
    He looks like a second hand car sales man

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  26. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    He looks like a second hand car sales man
    Well then, he might get on well with the second hand airplane sales man.

    https://www.planecheck.com/index.asp...id=14314&cor=y

    This C130H was offered for sale to Nigeria and in 2016 was valued at $12.7 mill approx. The airframe has 2680 hours on it according to the advert above. If the government coughed up over €200 mill for 2 Casa 295's then surely this wouldn't be too much of a stretch. The money from the disposal of the CN235's could be pumped into fund such a buy.
    Last edited by pilatus; 3rd June 2020 at 23:47.

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  28. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    So is he saying they won't buy one if its not used more then on average Twice a Week?
    On average how much is the Learjet used over a normal Week/Month?
    Over the past few years MATS has been around 50 missions with around 200hrs. EAS adds around another 20 missions.

    However the number of cycles is not will be important but more the number of flight hours.

  29. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Thanks I'm aware of the distinction just wondering if Paul Kehoe TD devotes all his time to defence
    See the small print

  30. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    Was he not at one point also Chief Whip back in the early years?
    He has been Minister of State for Defence since 2011

    He was also Government Chief Whip during period 2011 - 2016

  31. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    He has been Minister of State for Defence since 2011

    He was also Government Chief Whip during period 2011 - 2016
    I wonder which role from 2011 to 2016 took most of his time and effort?

  32. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I suspect that the DoD will view providing the report to be the end of the matter.
    Hard cover bound, gold inlaid lettering, Double spaced, times new roman.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  34. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilatus View Post
    Well then, he might get on well with the second hand airplane sales man.

    https://www.planecheck.com/index.asp...id=14314&cor=y

    This C130H was offered for sale to Nigeria and in 2016 was valued at $12.7 mill approx. The airframe has 2680 hours on it according to the advert above. If the government coughed up over €200 mill for 2 Casa 295's then surely this wouldn't be too much of a stretch. The money from the disposal of the CN235's could be pumped into fund such a buy.
    Money from the disposal of an aircraft? Are you mad? Surely our genius branch in DoD managed to get a great deal paying someone to take them off our hands. Remember the sale of the G4? Dauphin?
    The amount of equipment surplus to requirement of the DF that has been burnt, buried or scrapped over the years is something to behold. Everyone else sells their old gear. We let ours rot away in the back of a barracks somewhere. When the Dining block in Collins Barracks, Cork was built, a couple of tonnes of 37 pattern webbing went into the foundation. At least they dug up the Tank that was buried in the Glen and got it going again. Maybe that was the plan all along? The AC folk here i'm sure can tell about the fine retired aircraft that rotted away behind the hangars in Baldonnel.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  35. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilatus View Post
    Well then, he might get on well with the second hand airplane sales man.

    https://www.planecheck.com/index.asp...id=14314&cor=y

    This C130H was offered for sale to Nigeria and in 2016 was valued at $12.7 mill approx. The airframe has 2680 hours on it according to the advert above.
    It’s a former USN TACAMO aircraft (just for interest sake) and according to the advert they have 2-3 similar available.

    But all are currently without Engines or avionics.

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