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View Poll Results: What type of transport aircraft does the Air Corps need?

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  • Military transport aircraft such as C130J/A400M

    26 78.79%
  • Civilian airliner capable of carrying freight

    7 21.21%
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  1. #126
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    I'm open to correction here but I think long term stored aircraft that are earmarked as being suitable for reactivation are sealed and preserved minus the engines in the open. If the aircraft is reactivated the engines are then refitted. The advert later states

    " OUR AIRCRAFT WILL BE DELIVERED WITH A BRAND NEW CARGO FLOOR, A DUAL RAILING CARGO HANDLING SYSTEM AND A COMPLETE BRAND NEW 92 PARATROOP SEAT AND OPERATIONAL PARATROOP SYSTEM. "

    This leads me to believe that the aircraft does in fact come with engines since they could not deliver it otherwise, as they state they will. Again I could be completely wrong.

    Sorry about the caps, it's copied and pasted straight from their website and I'm feeling lazy today.

  2. #127
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    That is also my understanding with AMARC. Engines come off as standard, they can be swapped to aircraft in service, while that aircraft's engines are down for maintenance. In any event engine preservation when stored requires removal.
    If they are selling it without engines, that is usually listed in the sale.
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  3. #128
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    LOCKHEED MARTIN C-130H, SERIAL NUMBER 4932, HAS RECENTLY COMPLETED ITS PHASE ONE (1) HEAVY PDM AND UPGRADE PROGRAM AT CASCADE AEROSPACE, THE ONLY LOCKHEED MARTIN C-130 SERVICE CENTER IN NORTH AMERICA. IT IS AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE SALE.

    PHASE TWO (2) (LAST PHASE) WILL BE THE EXTERIOR PAINTING OF THE AIRCRAFT, THE SELECTION OF THE POWERPLANT AND THE AVIONICS EQUIPMENT, ALL IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PREFERENCE OF THE
    EVENTUAL BUYER (ULTIMATE END USER)
    .

    ALL REQUIRED SPECIAL INSPECTIONS (SP) AND STRUCTURAL INSPECTIONS (ST) HAVE BEEN COMPLETED.

    ALL TIME CHANGES AND ON-CONDITION COMPONENTS (ALL REMOVABLE PARTS) HAVE ZERO (0) TIME SINCE OVERHAUL AND/OR ARE FACTORY NEW.

    NO MAJOR SCHEDULED INSPECTIONS OR COMPONENT REPLACEMENTS WILL BE REQUIRED FOR THREE (3) YEARS / 2400 FLIGHT HOURS (FH).
    Basically it’s zero houred (as I understand it) but it is minus exterior paint, engines and avionics until specified by final customer

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  5. #129
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    There are various mods available that would keep a C130H viable for decades. The RR T56 3.5 has been retrofitted to in-service aircraft. There has been a successful trial of the NP2000 eight bladed prop from the E2 Hawkeye. There is also cockpit upgrade available from Marshalls.

  6. #130
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    https://medium.com/@kourousis/airlif...s-71b2d3f3ef7b

    Interesting short read on the logistics of operating military transport aircraft (In Ireland).


    This article aims to present and discuss a set of technical matters affecting the maintenance and sustainment cost of military transport aircraft (airlifters). An overview of the military aviation technical support system is provided, in conjunction with a high level discussion on the life cycle cost. Four technical support pillars are defined as part of this analysis: supply, restoration and upgrade, engineering and regulatory compliance.
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  7. #131
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    From Scramble magazine Facebook page:

    The COVID-19 pandemic has prompted the Hungarian government to acquire a cargo aircraft in order to have supplies reach Hungary in a timely fashion. The plane will be operated by Wizz Air, which has a partnership with the Hungarian government. Instead of adding the cargo-plane to the military, the government wanted the plane to be operated by an airline as it makes access to other countries easier.

    The aircraft involved is Airbus A330-200F c/n 1578 and it was previously operated by Qatar Airways as A7-AFF. It is currently being prepared for delivery at Doha. It is unknown when the plane will be delivered and in what livery.

    Photo via Wikimedia Commons.

    #avgeek #wizzair #airbus #hungary #qatarairways

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  9. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    From Scramble magazine Facebook page:

    The COVID-19 pandemic has prompted the Hungarian government to acquire a cargo aircraft in order to have supplies reach Hungary in a timely fashion. The plane will be operated by Wizz Air, which has a partnership with the Hungarian government. Instead of adding the cargo-plane to the military, the government wanted the plane to be operated by an airline as it makes access to other countries easier.

    The aircraft involved is Airbus A330-200F c/n 1578 and it was previously operated by Qatar Airways as A7-AFF. It is currently being prepared for delivery at Doha. It is unknown when the plane will be delivered and in what livery.

    Photo via Wikimedia Commons.

    #avgeek #wizzair #airbus #hungary #qatarairways
    Not to put too much a damper but Hungary has a slightly different situation, their "national" carrier Malev when out of business in 2012!
    We still have Aer Fungus with a fleet of long range aircraft that we were able to call upon. Also I could never imagine O'Leary operating anything on behalf of the government unless he got control of DAA as part of the deal.

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  11. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Not to put too much a damper but Hungary has a slightly different situation, their "national" carrier Malev when out of business in 2012!
    We still have Aer Fungus with a fleet of long range aircraft that we were able to call upon. Also I could never imagine O'Leary operating anything on behalf of the government unless he got control of DAA as part of the deal.
    I know Aer Lingus have done flights to China this year, but does the Irish Govt have any legal/commercial authority over Aer Lingus?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  12. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I know Aer Lingus have done flights to China this year, but does the Irish Govt have any legal/commercial authority over Aer Lingus?
    IAG bought the Government 25% share in 2015. IAG are based in Spain. Aer Fungus however still has it's head office in Dublin Airport.
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  14. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I know Aer Lingus have done flights to China this year, but does the Irish Govt have any legal/commercial authority over Aer Lingus?
    It has no authority but like most other nations the Irish Government has supported Air Fungus and utilized the free capacity to fill an urgent need.
    The current situation especially with the long haul market has allowed this to happen, this is not to say that a future emergency need could be satisfied.. Hungary does not have a local long haul airline and so must find an alternative. There is still a need for the State to have an independent strategic transport capacity.

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  16. #136
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    I was just saying it as an option

    With the current state of the airline industry, an airline might pay us to ask them to do it

  17. #137
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    Hungary becomes the first nation to join the German A400M Multinational Air Transport Unit which will utilise the extra A400M aircraft that Germany is committed to buying. It would be an option for us to join, similar to the NATO sharing of C-17s in which Sweden & Finland have a stake.

    https://www.bundeswehr.de/bw-de/orga...rojekt-2463638

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  19. #138
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    Aer Lingus just sent an A321-211 delivered in 1999 into storage in Spain. Would it be of any use wearing the Air Corps Roundel?
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  21. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Aer Lingus just sent an A321-211 delivered in 1999 into storage in Spain. Would it be of any use wearing the Air Corps Roundel?
    Send it first to Dresden, have it fitted with a cargo door and while it is there have them paint the roundel. Buy some palletise seating and you have a good multi-role transporter.

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  23. #140
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    I think the 211 has Transatlantic range.
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  24. #141
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    A 21-yr old A321 is worth the value of it's engines, nothing more. All of the EI 321s are very high-time airframes. It's probably at a point in it's life where it's just about worth converting to a freighter.

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  26. #142
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    The Dutch have just announced that they will now replace their 4x C-130's with new aircraft at a cost of €250 million to €1 billion. It was decided that the cost of keeping them in-service and upgrading them was too high.

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  28. #143
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    They were planning to replace in 2030 anyway. Made little sense to upgrade their H and H-30s for the sake of at best 8 years more. I'd say they are strong contenders for A400M. They already have access to NATO C17s through SAC
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  29. #144
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    Will be interesting if the Dutch go with new aircraft of their own or go the joint model with the Germans, they already share the Karel Doorman JSS and contribute to a joint Armoured battalion.

  30. #145
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    Here's a cockpit view of a B757-200 landing on 29/11 with a KFOR chalk some years back. Barely uses the runway.
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  31. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post


    Here's a cockpit view of a B757-200 landing on 29/11 with a KFOR chalk some years back. Barely uses the runway.

    Given that the only insinuation given is that this B757 "barely uses the runway" I will offer some informed commentary.

    1. No KFOR chalk, certainly since the contingent size changed from a Coy to *significantly* less, has been rotated on a dedicated commercial transfer. There's enough info on social media to identify what mission is being rotated in this video.

    2. This B757 crosses the displaced threshold of RWY29 at 10ft above the runway, as per the cockpit callout. Normal operations would dictate that the aircraft is at 50ft above the threshold on landing. This clearly indicates that the crew were executing a short field landing technique.

    2. The main landing gear touches on before the 500' ft markers. The normal touchdown point as per a 3° Glide slope is at the 1000ft markers. Another indication of a short field landing technique being used.

    3. Both PAPI's left and right of RWY29 indicate 3 reds/1 white on short final which indicates that the aircraft is below the optimum approach angle. Another short field technique.

    4. The aircraft in question would have been operating at a significantly reduced landing weight given the limited pax (much less than c.200) and much less cargo would have much improved breaking capacity.

    5. Many 757's operate RR engines, which are noted to be significantly overpowered for the airframe giving significant increases in take off and landing performance. Having a designated alternate about 10km away greatly reduces the alternate fuel required which further reduced the landing weight.

    6. The runway is bone dry which is a significant factor in calculated landing distance but is ultimately more critical for take off performance.

    Again, not entirely sure what the purpose of your video is but if it was to show "here's a 757 landing in Baldonnel..its a non event", then this isn't an accurate reflection of all the considerations to be fair.

    Throw in an aircraft close to MAUW on a limits approach to a non precision runaway in marginal conditions on a contaminated runway and its a different story.

    There's a reason why the DF rotate the bigger mission chalks through Dublin.

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  33. #147
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    Spot on. 757s are still highly sought after by airlines. they have held their value compared to other airliners, even their Boeing stablemates. Pilots and cabin crews always speak highly of them. The RR engines are less than universally loved but they are very good cruising engines.

  34. #148
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    My point was to demonstrate that while a mythical former civvy airliner used by the Air Corps for troop transport may not be able to use the runway under normal conditions, it would still be possible, should said aircraft need to return for maintenance/storage.
    So if we were offered a 757 for lease, we wouldn't necessarily need to refuse it because the runway at Bal is too short. My uneducated eye says they landed that in less than 1000m. Normal operation could work from Dublin, the rest of the time.
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  36. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Given that the only insinuation given is that this B757 "barely uses the runway" I will offer some informed commentary.

    1. No KFOR chalk, certainly since the contingent size changed from a Coy to *significantly* less, has been rotated on a dedicated commercial transfer. There's enough info on social media to identify what mission is being rotated in this video.

    2. This B757 crosses the displaced threshold of RWY29 at 10ft above the runway, as per the cockpit callout. Normal operations would dictate that the aircraft is at 50ft above the threshold on landing. This clearly indicates that the crew were executing a short field landing technique.

    2. The main landing gear touches on before the 500' ft markers. The normal touchdown point as per a 3° Glide slope is at the 1000ft markers. Another indication of a short field landing technique being used.

    3. Both PAPI's left and right of RWY29 indicate 3 reds/1 white on short final which indicates that the aircraft is below the optimum approach angle. Another short field technique.

    4. The aircraft in question would have been operating at a significantly reduced landing weight given the limited pax (much less than c.200) and much less cargo would have much improved breaking capacity.

    5. Many 757's operate RR engines, which are noted to be significantly overpowered for the airframe giving significant increases in take off and landing performance. Having a designated alternate about 10km away greatly reduces the alternate fuel required which further reduced the landing weight.

    6. The runway is bone dry which is a significant factor in calculated landing distance but is ultimately more critical for take off performance.

    Again, not entirely sure what the purpose of your video is but if it was to show "here's a 757 landing in Baldonnel..its a non event", then this isn't an accurate reflection of all the considerations to be fair.

    Throw in an aircraft close to MAUW on a limits approach to a non precision runaway in marginal conditions on a contaminated runway and its a different story.

    There's a reason why the DF rotate the bigger mission chalks through Dublin.


    I returned from UNIFIL into Baldonnel on a Boeing 767-204(ER). Very wet day from what i recall.

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  38. #150
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    Looking at Google Earth, it should be possible to extend the runways, no?

    Edit: Maximum takeoff run of the 321 at see level is something like 2800m, probably more for the XLR. I still say: relocate the AC to Shannon. Build a new naval port in Barley Harbour and give them a joint base.
    Last edited by Graylion; 22nd October 2020 at 00:15.

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