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  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Dublin has built itself around Baldonnel.
    Not much scope without diverting a few roads also. Not to mention nearby residential areas.
    Gormo had more scope for expansion and less locals to complain but they gave up the runways. No hangars though.
    Gormo has very limited scope for expansion, it is boxed in on one side by the main rail link to the north, on the other by the main road link. To the south is Balbriggan while to the north is our national internment camp. An east-west runway to counter prevailing winds would not be possible while a north south would have a lot of cross-wind issues. Plus why build a new airport when there are so many under utilized ones already in the state.

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    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
      Gormo has very limited scope for expansion, it is boxed in on one side by the main rail link to the north, on the other by the main road link. To the south is Balbriggan while to the north is our national internment camp. An east-west runway to counter prevailing winds would not be possible while a north south would have a lot of cross-wind issues. Plus why build a new airport when there are so many under utilized ones already in the state.
      Compared to Baldonnel though, it's practically isolated.
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
        Compared to Baldonnel though, it's practically isolated.
        For the moment! The Dublin areas continues to expand and the area will see increasing demands on land even if only for recreation. Any future investment in infrastructure should be future proof for the next 100 years. That means ensuring that the areas around facilities and training areas are protected by correct zoning. For the Don I think it is already too late and that in the next decades it may be forced to close, expansion is out of the question.

        Things change just look at the RAF and London, during WW2 there were dozens of fighter bases around London, today the nearest is RAF Marham over 100 miles away. It is the same with the aircraft manufacturers, all have moved away because of urban encroachment. In 10, 20 years the Don might get away with flying some small light aircraft but anything heavy will be out of the question. If I had a say this would be one of the many, many issues I would tackle in a Commission on Defence, infrastructure takes a long time to develope. It would be not great if we got say some A-400m's and Eurofighters, based them in the Don with massive investment only to have soneone take the AC to court over noise and win their case.

        Gormo does have development potential for rotary wing operations but there too it location must be protected through proper zoning. And zoning that cannot be overturned just by the local councils.

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        • A quick google tells me that Gormo’s runway is 821m long

          Maps tells me it is bounded on the East by the railway line and not too far beyond by the coast to the camp is bounded by the enterance road, some fields and a main road.

          In comparison, Baldonnel’s runways are 1818 and 1464 m long. It could be possible to extend both currently (a bit) without major disruptions.

          However in both cases it also depends on approaches etc


          Note though

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          • The obvious answer is to move everything to Shannon,(it's foreign military flights that keep it afloat anyway) before it becomes derelict. Do it in Phases, so the whole organisation doesn't all have to move from the Pale to the Mid-west in one go (though they might be thankful when they consider the better quality of life that comes with it.)
            Plenty of space to build a new facility out in Rineanna North (where Maritime Patrol in Ireland Began.)
            Start with the New CASA. Leave Rotary wing and flying training in place, gradually move all other fixed wing out.
            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              A quick google tells me that Gormo’s runway is 821m long

              Maps tells me it is bounded on the East by the railway line and not too far beyond by the coast to the camp is bounded by the enterance road, some fields and a main road.

              In comparison, Baldonnel’s runways are 1818 and 1464 m long. It could be possible to extend both currently (a bit) without major disruptions.

              However in both cases it also depends on approaches etc


              Note though
              https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Suppli...ase/154073/0/0
              Does the Old VOR/DME still act as a marker for aircraft on approach to Dublin, and a warning for when the ranges are in use?
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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              • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post

                Things change just look at the RAF and London, during WW2 there were dozens of fighter bases around London, today the nearest is RAF Marham over 100 miles away.
                Are you forgetting RAF Northolt which is about 15 miles from central london?

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                • Originally posted by Chuck View Post
                  Are you forgetting RAF Northolt which is about 15 miles from central london?
                  No I am not, I was just talking about active fighter bases, the ones that make the real noise.
                  Unless I am mistaken the only aircraft based at RAF Northolt are No.32 Squadron operating 4 BAe146's and a sole A-109 more commonly known as the Royal Flight.
                  And yes, four Typhoons did operate out of Northolt to provide protection during the 2012 Olympics. But this was a very time limited deployment.

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                  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                    No I am not, I was just talking about active fighter bases, the ones that make the real noise.
                    Unless I am mistaken the only aircraft based at RAF Northolt are No.32 Squadron operating 4 BAe146's and a sole A-109 more commonly known as the Royal Flight.
                    And yes, four Typhoons did operate out of Northolt to provide protection during the 2012 Olympics. But this was a very time limited deployment.
                    Okay, I misread your post given the thread is about transport aircraft.

                    You're right about the home based aircraft. In normal times its pretty packed with bizjet traffic and plenty of RAF and other mil visitors.

                    Very few with the noise signature of a typhoon, granted.

                    I dont think the AC have to worry about upsetting the neighbors with a squadron of gripens anytime soon.

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                    • Aer Lingus offered an aircraft
                      Aer Lingus offered a plane to the government after it was reported that the state was considering spending millions on a military jet. In May the Business Post

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                      • Does anyone have a times account? I can't see the second half. I expect it won't cheer me up much.

                        How can this happen?
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          Does anyone have a times account? I can't see the second half. I expect it won't cheer me up much.

                          How can this happen?
                          Not an account, but a handy work around in firefox:
                          Aer Lingus offered a plane to the government after it was reported that the state was considering spending millions on a military jet.

                          In May the Business Post reported that Leo Varadkar, who was then taoiseach, had asked the defence forces to look at buying its first military transport plane which would cost in the region of €10 million.
                          Ireland is the only country in the European Union without a military plane, meaning it has to rely on lifts from other countries when transporting troops and their kit home.

                          Gerry O’Sullivan, head of public affairs for Q4PR, the company which represents Aer Lingus, wrote to Brian Murphy, the taoiseach’s chief of staff, on May 20. The correspondence was released under freedom of information legislation.

                          Mr O’Sullivan attached the Business Post article and wrote: “Regarding the below article. Aer Lingus has an A330-200 that could potentially be converted into a cargo freighter and offered to the state on a wet-lease basis in a more cost-effective way than the purchase of an aircraft as contemplated below.
                          “Is this something that the government would be interested in talking to Aer Lingus about?”

                          A wet lease is an arrangement under which one airline provides an aircraft, complete with crew, maintenance and insurance to another airline or other type of business, in this case the government. The government would then pay by per hour or per journey for use of the aircraft.

                          Mr O’Sullivan said that the matter had not proceeded. Other sources have said that the state had no intention of purchasing such an aircraft for the military, despite eagerness within the defence forces.

                          The state bought two Airbus C295 medium airlifters earlier this year but this is not thought to be sufficient to transport the kind of equipment that a defence force would need.

                          Cathal Berry, a TD and former army ranger with the defence forces, told The Times that an A330, like the one proposed by Aer Lingus, would not suit the needs of the defence forces.

                          “The A330 is too big for our requirements and would be too expensive to maintain,” he said.

                          “The air corps requires to be able to land in Baldonnell and to fly to Beirut international airport in a single hop. Any plane would also need to be able to be maintained in Dublin.”

                          Mr Berry had previously said the C295 was “not at the races from an international perspective”.

                          A spokeswoman for the Department of Defence said they had purchased three Pilatus PC-12 aircraft and for two Airbus C295 maritime patrol aircraft.

                          “No decisions have made for the acquisition of additional aircraft in other roles. Some €265 million, including VAT, is currently committed to the acquisition of these enhanced capabilities,” she said.

                          “While the option of acquiring a wider military lift capability has been mentioned, including as referenced in the query, it was not identified as an action in the present Defence Forces equipment development plan.”

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                          • I assume the State paid Aer Lingus for all the PPE flights to China?

                            Did they have to pay them for the evacuation flights from Spain?

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                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              Does anyone have a times account?
                              Don't bother this is in the bit you can read "Ireland is the only country in the European Union without a military plane"

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                              • just wondering could the government sell the two casa 235 and put the money towards a 3rd casa 295m better to have them all the same type
                                Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

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