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  • #31
    Originally posted by Anzac View Post
    So your telling me that the Floozie in the Jacuzzi, The Prick with the Stick and the Tart with the Cart look nothing like they're meant to be? For me who has been in tourist mode to Dublin a few times that is a shame.
    Wait till you see the one of Luke Kelly down in Ringsend , it looks like something from spitting images .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Laners View Post
      Wait till you see the one of Luke Kelly down in Ringsend , it looks like something from spitting images .
      It keeps getting vandalised, but I think thats on grounds of taste, not the individual represented!
      'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
      'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
      Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
      He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
      http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Laners View Post
        Wait till you see the one of Luke Kelly down in Ringsend , it looks like something from spitting images .
        Don't go looking for a statue of Luke Kelly in Ringsend D4, its not there. Its on Sherrif Street D1.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
          The problem is Education. There are many statues about of historic figures, yet apart from their name, and sometimes the year they were born and died, there is little information about who they were or what they did.
          Trafalgar square is a prime example.
          Next to Nelson, is Charles Napier. Why? What did he do to share a space with the Hero of Trafalgar, Jellicoe and Beatty? Why was the Inventor of the Smallpox Vaccine moved elsewhere and not this statue or another unknown, Henry Havelock?
          The problem we have in Ireland more recently is not of who the statue represents, but the absolute absence of likeness to the person they are supposed to be.
          Of course the problem is education. The people tearing down the statues don't care who or what they represent, they don't know enough to care.

          Those who do the 'work' of physically removing and/or defacing the statues are the ill-educated, and they and the people who cheer them on and applaud them are what others in the background would probably call 'useful fools'.

          The tearing down of statues goes hand-in-hand with the widespread suppression of books and films, which we're also seeing the beginning of now (Fawlty Towers, for fkuc sake).

          Anyone who knows anything about history will know that societies which have practiced these things have always gone downhill at a rate of knots from there. There are plenty of recent examples.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by FCA Trooper View Post
            Of course the problem is education. The people tearing down the statues don't care who or what they represent, they don't know enough to care.

            Those who do the 'work' of physically removing and/or defacing the statues are the ill-educated, and they and the people who cheer them on and applaud them are what others in the background would probably call 'useful fools'.

            The tearing down of statues goes hand-in-hand with the widespread suppression of books and films, which we're also seeing the beginning of now (Fawlty Towers, for fkuc sake).

            Anyone who knows anything about history will know that societies which have practiced these things have always gone downhill at a rate of knots from there. There are plenty of recent examples.
            Another problem is the "Statue Protectors" who unfortunately seem to be led by repressed football hooligan types, whose real grasp of History is "2 World Wars and 1 World Cup" and whose midlife crisis seems to revolve around them thinking they are some sort modern day reincarnation of the Knights Templar (Unfortunately some of these people are not the "Jobless- Larger Louts" stereotypes that the media likes to portray them as, I have meet these type of people in work, some of whom are even in management positions).

            When you have these two polar opposites going at each other like that, the middle ground tends gets silenced out and common sense then sides with "Lesser of Two Evils"
            It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
            It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
            It was a new age...It was the end of history.
            It was the year everything changed.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by B Inman View Post
              Don't go looking for a statue of Luke Kelly in Ringsend D4, its not there. Its on Sherrif Street D1.
              Another one of Irelands famous moving statues .
              Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Laners View Post
                Wait till you see the one of Luke Kelly down in Ringsend , it looks like something from spitting images .
                Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                It keeps getting vandalised, but I think thats on grounds of taste, not the individual represented!
                Always thought that was an ugly statue and didn't do justice to the man
                The bronze statue at the side of the St Stephen's Green Centre (South King Street) is a much better legacy to the man

                "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by CTU View Post
                  Another problem is the "Statue Protectors" who unfortunately seem to be led by repressed football hooligan types, whose real grasp of History is "2 World Wars and 1 World Cup" and whose midlife crisis seems to revolve around them thinking they are some sort modern day reincarnation of the Knights Templar (Unfortunately some of these people are not the "Jobless- Larger Louts" stereotypes that the media likes to portray them as, I have meet these type of people in work, some of whom are even in management positions).

                  When you have these two polar opposites going at each other like that, the middle ground tends gets silenced out and common sense then sides with "Lesser of Two Evils"
                  It's a mirror image of the other side. You have a mixture of law-abiding people who are genuinely concerned about an issue - in this case the illegal destruction of public property (because God knows, the police weren't going to do anything about it) - inevitably followed by a pack of gougers jumping on the bandwagon.

                  Common sense doesn't take either side - common sense tells you that to try to appease bullies of any stripe can only lead to disaster. We are seeing the effects of this like never before, and I fear it will only get worse as time goes on.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Laners View Post
                    Another one of Irelands famous moving statues .
                    Nelsons Pillar "moved" quite a bit.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by FCA Trooper View Post
                      It's a mirror image of the other side. You have a mixture of law-abiding people who are genuinely concerned about an issue - in this case the illegal destruction of public property (because God knows, the police weren't going to do anything about it) - inevitably followed by a pack of gougers jumping on the bandwagon.

                      Common sense doesn't take either side - common sense tells you that to try to appease bullies of any stripe can only lead to disaster. We are seeing the effects of this like never before, and I fear it will only get worse as time goes on.
                      Common sense should also have said that statues of people whose activities we should be ashamed of have no place in our public spaces. Those who profit from slavery have no place overlooking shared public spaces. Those who fought to retain slavery definitely have no place overlooking shared public spaces.
                      There are no statues of Queen Victoria or Churchill on display in Ireland (though the one that was buried in the Grounds of UCC is now on display within one of their buildings, out of harms way).
                      You won't find any statue of Osama Bin Laden in Central Park, yet many of the recently removed statues (whether officially or unofficially) represented the same thing from a past generation to most normal people. Some were even erected against the wishes of the people living in their vicinity. The guy who ended up at the bottom of the Bristol harbour had been earmarked for removal, based on negative public opinion, but the local council decided to ignore the wishes of the majority.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                        Common sense should also have said that statues of people whose activities we should be ashamed of have no place in our public spaces. Those who profit from slavery have no place overlooking shared public spaces. Those who fought to retain slavery definitely have no place overlooking shared public spaces.
                        There are no statues of Queen Victoria or Churchill on display in Ireland (though the one that was buried in the Grounds of UCC is now on display within one of their buildings, out of harms way).
                        You won't find any statue of Osama Bin Laden in Central Park, yet many of the recently removed statues (whether officially or unofficially) represented the same thing from a past generation to most normal people. Some were even erected against the wishes of the people living in their vicinity. The guy who ended up at the bottom of the Bristol harbour had been earmarked for removal, based on negative public opinion, but the local council decided to ignore the wishes of the majority.
                        Bomber Harris was very good at murdering German civilians and he gets a statue from a grateful people with the moral standards of today.
                        The Confederate Generals were seen as not good slavers but men who fought to preserve the old ways of the south.
                        Churchill get a statue not for his racist past but was given one because he rallied the British people in time of war.
                        Cromwell get one for bring the monarchy in to line, not for sorting out the Irish.
                        We have Herr Russell whose mates the Nazi had the Irish classed as unterlegen and marked down for work camps he gets a rally every year.
                        Last edited by sofa; 19 June 2020, 23:24.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          Common sense should also have said that statues of people whose activities we should be ashamed of have no place in our public spaces. Those who profit from slavery have no place overlooking shared public spaces. Those who fought to retain slavery definitely have no place overlooking shared public spaces.
                          There are no statues of Queen Victoria or Churchill on display in Ireland (though the one that was buried in the Grounds of UCC is now on display within one of their buildings, out of harms way).
                          You won't find any statue of Osama Bin Laden in Central Park, yet many of the recently removed statues (whether officially or unofficially) represented the same thing from a past generation to most normal people. Some were even erected against the wishes of the people living in their vicinity. The guy who ended up at the bottom of the Bristol harbour had been earmarked for removal, based on negative public opinion, but the local council decided to ignore the wishes of the majority.
                          I'm not a great believer in polls because they seem to turn out wrong more often than not, but a YouGov poll found that only 13% of local people agreed with disposing of the statue in that manner. Make of that what you will, but it's hard to argue that the practice of having chanting mobs illegally tearing down statues and fkucing them in the drink with the tacit permission of the police is something that happens in a well-functioning society.

                          It's also worth pointing out that the act in question supposedly happened in response to an event which took place in a different country thousands of miles away. What's the relevance to Britain or Ireland?

                          Going back to the original question of statues - taking down a statue is like hashtagging. It's a vapid, meaningless act and it achieves nothing except to make somebody feel good about themselves. You could take down every statue in the world and it would do absolutely nothing to improve the life of a single black person; in fact, it does great harm because it helps perpetuate the notion that black people are victims.

                          If you want to help black people, maybe treat them as equals. Maybe stop patronising them by acting as though they are incapable of getting ahead without special treatment.

                          Last time I flew into Dublin Airport, one of the first things I noted on the way to Arrivals was a giant photo of Jurry Awdams' ugly mug on the wall. Has he not had a hand in murdering innocent people - and within living memory? The hell is his picture doing there? If you're into removing the images of immoral people, surely he'd be a suitable candidate? Yeah, no. Provo butchery isn't trending at the moment.
                          Last edited by FCA Trooper; 20 June 2020, 06:41.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            If I had my way I would burn every poster of Jarry (I was never in the IRA) Adams on a ceremonial fire only with him on top, but that's just me. My views may not reflect the majority.
                            There is a link between the BLM movement in the USA (which is in itself a civil rights movement) and Slavers from the UK, however tenuous.
                            When Slavery was abolished in the 19th Century (Against some fierce opposition in Parliament, by the way, Prince Albert, who supported abolition got involved, was told to butt out, duly refused and made it clear the Royal house wished for abolition) freed slaves were given nothing. They were told to leave the estates they had farmed on and spent their lives. At the same time, european settlers were being given land in the american west for free. No such offer was given to the freed slaves. So from the outset they were second class citizens, because they were former slaves.They had no option but to take menial low paying work, and had no rights or protections. Their status as second class citizens was written into law for a further 100 years. So they are forced to live in slums, work low paying jobs, cannot get a 3rd Level education(until the 1960s) and should they be arrested, will be back as slaves again because the US constitution has a nice opt-out clause which permits the use of slave labour of incarcerated felons. So an instutionally racist militaristic police force then continues to provoke black youths, to encourage a reaction that would justify an arrest. Rules like the three strike rule mean African American males will spend longer terms in prison for minor offences (because White people call the cops when they see black people walking in their neighbourhood) Because of the Slavers in the UK, who 200 years later still have statues celebrating them, and streets and civic buildings named after them in the UK.
                            Thats why.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              If I had my way I would burn every poster of Jarry (I was never in the IRA) Adams on a ceremonial fire only with him on top, but that's just me. My views may not reflect the majority.
                              There is a link between the BLM movement in the USA (which is in itself a civil rights movement) and Slavers from the UK, however tenuous.
                              When Slavery was abolished in the 19th Century (Against some fierce opposition in Parliament, by the way, Prince Albert, who supported abolition got involved, was told to butt out, duly refused and made it clear the Royal house wished for abolition) freed slaves were given nothing. They were told to leave the estates they had farmed on and spent their lives. At the same time, european settlers were being given land in the american west for free. No such offer was given to the freed slaves. So from the outset they were second class citizens, because they were former slaves.They had no option but to take menial low paying work, and had no rights or protections. Their status as second class citizens was written into law for a further 100 years. So they are forced to live in slums, work low paying jobs, cannot get a 3rd Level education(until the 1960s) and should they be arrested, will be back as slaves again because the US constitution has a nice opt-out clause which permits the use of slave labour of incarcerated felons. So an instutionally racist militaristic police force then continues to provoke black youths, to encourage a reaction that would justify an arrest. Rules like the three strike rule mean African American males will spend longer terms in prison for minor offences (because White people call the cops when they see black people walking in their neighbourhood) Because of the Slavers in the UK, who 200 years later still have statues celebrating them, and streets and civic buildings named after them in the UK.
                              Thats why.
                              Very well put.
                              'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                              'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                              Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                              He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                              http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Be that as it may, taking down statues is an empty gesture and solves nothing. It only further encourages a mentality of victimhood, and God knows there are few things as dangerous and as harmful as that.

                                Try to name a successful person who goes around the whole time obsessively moping about how they were wronged in the past. You won't be able to, because there are none.
                                So why, if you care about the welfare of certain people, would you want to encourage them to do just that. You wouldn't. So don't.

                                Besides - whatever vague connection exists between Ireland and the slave trading that went on a couple of centuries ago, it does not justify removing monuments which have stood for decades, and which nobody seemed to mind until the oppression of African-Americans suddenly started trending on social media a couple of weeks ago.

                                Our forefathers didn't go to the bother of obtaining independence for us so that our decisions could be dictated by people in other countries posting mindless slogans on Twitter.

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