Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

NSR officers at sea

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Just to clarify my final point from the above.

    - NSR officers with a maritime background and said qualifications should and are allowed to provide relief on state ships.
    - NSR officers with no such background will never be able to attain the time and experience to acquire such qualifications through their reserve service. We need to be realistic. They are of course vital to their units. NSR personnel are considerably less useful on ships from the rank of PO and above as it is impossible to attain the required experience unless you're in the merchant or have prior service.

    Anyway, BZ to all of the new officers! Enough off topic from me!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
      If you put people in Naval uniforms it is expected they will conduct their profession at sea or keeping ships at sea. In WW11 the escorts were largely manned by 90 Day wonders and some commanded by Bank clerks with the Atlantic their first experience of mighty oceans. Training and encouragement. When the ATC took over Marine Rescue Coordination, we had two weeks to train them in Haulbowline on Marine Charts and communications procedures and two weeks mentoring them in Shannon, and that was it up and running. In 12 weeks intensive training anybody could be a safe watch officer and the Astro end of it could be done in unit by following an Offshore Yacht Master's programme. My doctor did his in 6 months and passed his ticket.
      In answer to the question what would you do with an NSR officer aboard ship? Put him on duty/watch with an experienced young officer and mentor him on every shipboard task. Learn all OOD tasks, ship safety, ship openings and significance of X,Y,Z, doors. On watch with the mentoring officer become familiar with bridge layout, use all equipment Radar, ECDIS, Echo sounders, FCS, fix ship, traffic avoidance, emergency drills, using phones and radio. When opportunity arises, fire weapons, send NSR officer with boarding officer and carry out inspections. Gradually let him/her make decisions, alter course , avoid opposing traffic. You learn mostly by experience, remember every ship has first trippers who become first class sailors.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
        Just to clarify my final point from the above.

        - NSR officers with a maritime background and said qualifications should and are allowed to provide relief on state ships.
        - NSR officers with no such background will never be able to attain the time and experience to acquire such qualifications through their reserve service. We need to be realistic. They are of course vital to their units. NSR personnel are considerably less useful on ships from the rank of PO and above as it is impossible to attain the required experience unless you're in the merchant or have prior service.

        Anyway, BZ to all of the new officers! Enough off topic from me!
        A friend of mine made approaches to the NSR many years ago when his old unit was being disbanded, around the same time he was moving county. A third engineer working on Tankers. The CO of the unit at the time told him they had no use for his skills.
        Same CO turned away many others for the same reason, people with 154s, powerboat courses, merchant marine experience....even former NS Seamen.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          In answer to the question what would you do with an NSR officer aboard ship? Put him on duty/watch with an experienced young officer and mentor him on every shipboard task. Learn all OOD tasks, ship safety, ship openings and significance of X,Y,Z, doors. On watch with the mentoring officer become familiar with bridge layout, use all equipment Radar, ECDIS, Echo sounders, FCS, fix ship, traffic avoidance, emergency drills, using phones and radio. When opportunity arises, fire weapons, send NSR officer with boarding officer and carry out inspections. Gradually let him/her make decisions, alter course , avoid opposing traffic. You learn mostly by experience, remember every ship has first trippers who become first class sailors.

          What else do you think they do.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by popeye View Post
            What else do you think they do.
            But your aren’t going to qualify them to do it by themselves during an annual 2-3 week patrol ?

            Even if they have some kind of new launch to practice on more frequently they will always be an understudy.

            Is their any jobs that they could be deployed on OPVs for say an annual patrol to help take the strain without a massive amount of FTT or courses to be completed where they would be useful (if they don’t already have merchant navy experience)?

            Comment


            • #21
              ll
              Last edited by popeye; 29 June 2020, 16:25.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by popeye View Post
                Amy new launches will not require a merchant ticket and will be fully manned by the NSR.
                Spot on with the above but this is where the disconnect is.

                An NSR officer may as well go down the PDF commissioning route if they want to properly stand watches as 2 weeks FTT training aren't enough. Six months is pie in the sky as this is what be required to properly take on knowledge at a significant level. Maybe someone could take a leave of absence and do it once but then it's immediate skill fade.

                I'm referring to operating on the ships and not the launches.They are different kettle of fish as popeye rightly states.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                  Spot on with the above but this is where the disconnect is.

                  An NSR officer may as well go down the PDF commissioning route if they want to properly stand watches as 2 weeks FTT training aren't enough. Six months is pie in the sky as this is what be required to properly take on knowledge at a significant level. Maybe someone could take a leave of absence and do it once but then it's immediate skill fade.

                  I'm referring to operating on the ships and not the launches.They are different kettle of fish as popeye rightly states.
                  Takes 2 days to learn how to coxn a boat. Takes 3 years (including seatime and full time education) to gain the skills required to take command of a bridge of any ship, civilian or military. Even after 3 years you will have the OC a few steps away from your decisions at all times.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    But your aren’t going to qualify them to do it by themselves during an annual 2-3 week patrol ?

                    Even if they have some kind of new launch to practice on more frequently they will always be an understudy.

                    Is their any jobs that they could be deployed on OPVs for say an annual patrol to help take the strain without a massive amount of FTT or courses to be completed where they would be useful (if they don’t already have merchant navy experience)?
                    All training is useful. A 50ft launch is perfect if it is fitted out with most of the Equipments found on modern launches, such as, Radar, radio, GPS. Handling an manoeuvring such vessels provides a good seed bed of knowledge. I have carried SM ratings of all ranks and used them as understudies during our trips. Even the newest NSR officer with sufficient mentoring and a kind DPO can carry out the duties in port and anchor of OOD/OOW. The tasking is in the name Naval Service Reserve.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      Takes 2 days to learn how to coxn a boat. Takes 3 years (including seatime and full time education) to gain the skills required to take command of a bridge of any ship, civilian or military. Even after 3 years you will have the OC a few steps away from your decisions at all times.
                      Exactly so what jobs could non-merchant navy NSR officers do at sea which wouldn’t require them to be understudy for significant periods?

                      Relief boarding officer



                      Btw not knocking NSR officers it isn’t there fault but if they are to be put on OPVs they should be able to do something to help

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        Exactly so what jobs could non-merchant navy NSR officers do at sea which wouldn’t require them to be understudy for significant periods?

                        Relief boarding officer



                        Btw not knocking NSR officers it isn’t there fault but if they are to be put on OPVs they should be able to do something to help
                        With no disrespect intended, none. Not in the current system. The only alternative is to recruit NSR officers directly from the small pool of professional mariners working in merchant marine who still reside in Ireland.
                        You will however increase that pool if you look for people capable of handling a small vessel in open waters, ie, those who work in the fishing or maritime towing or Workboat area. But that would require an appropriate vessel for them to command.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          This is getting interesting, what does an NSR officer need to be able to operate on a ship, without supervision or understudy. What do they need to operate a new small boat as suggested above. There is another thread on this and might be best to continue there. Looking at the other thread they had boats before so who drove those, NCOs, PTEs or Officers and FTT did they have. Seems that's all they need to do.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                            This is getting interesting, what does an NSR officer need to be able to operate on a ship, without supervision or understudy. What do they need to operate a new small boat as suggested above. There is another thread on this and might be best to continue there. Looking at the other thread they had boats before so who drove those, NCOs, PTEs or Officers and FTT did they have. Seems that's all they need to do.
                            2 questions there:
                            (a) Do you want to be able to make a NSR Officer interchangeable with a NS Officer? If you do you need equivalent training a (full time) degree in nautical science and then some

                            (b) is there discreet jobs onboard an OPV that a NSR Officer could specialise in if they don’t hold relevant civilian (or NS) qualifications to gain a Naval Watchkeeping Certificate? That would be attainable

                            If we want NSR officers to be (at least to a degree of) interchangeable with a NS Officer the only option is those who are already professionally qualified (and experienced). Which will limit those interested, available and more Possibly importantly For the NSR when they are available. You could find yourself in a situation, where if all NSR officers are professional seafarers that they aren’t even available for weekly parades 50% of the time as they are away with work.

                            If we just want the NSR officers to be capable of operating launches that is probably very doable but it is arguably seagoing (as in OPV) personnel that the NS needs more from the NSR
                            Last edited by DeV; 29 June 2020, 18:40.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Boats are commanded by a Coxn, usually a junior rate. Small patrol craft can be commanded either by senior rates, or depending on its role, a Junior officer.
                              For example the Archers of which we speak are commanded usually by a Lieutenant, but he is also the OC of that University Royal Naval Unit. There is a whole load of other URNU bullshit that they also get up to that is irrelevant, needless to say they are designed to groom university students into Her majestys naval officers, and are crewed accordingly.
                              If you want the future NSR vessel to act as a mothership for Rhibs, then an officer would be expected to command it, and be familiar with navigation planning, and use of marine comms in a coastal environment. Most of which can be covered by a yachtsmaster course.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Copied from other thread

                                Their is nothing stopping NSR lads from getting courses in the Naval BTC. Or is there, the topic of training is over on the NSR commissioning thread buts more like a bashing of NSR officers. As said in the other thread why dont they do a yacht masters course?. I must look it up but on both threads it seems to suggest that there must be a particular rank that drives a boat and a rank that commands it and a rank that controls it all. So what would they be, if someone could draw a comparison to a mowag it might help us understand.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X