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  • Irish Air Corps, QRA

    Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Again how do you sell moving AC people to the middle of nowhere in Knock, Shannon at least Limerick.
    I included 16 fighters in this - and operating fighters which may have to scramble out of a busy airport is a no go. They really should have their own base altogether. And you really don't want their noise in something that is a built up as Baldonnel.

  • #2
    Fighters are no stranger to Shannon. Having military aircraft based there permanently could save it in the airline slump that is going to hit.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • #3
      Joint mil-civil airports are very common and they work well together, even if they have a QRA station on site. When the alarm goes off, the movement of all aircraft stops until the QRA aircraft have taken off, which is usually under a few minutes and then noirmal jogging resumes. Ireland is exceptional in not having a joint airport.

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      • #4
        And movements in Shannon recently are nothing as busy as Cork or Dublin.
        The only thing saving it is the stopovers and US Immigration pre clearance.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
          Joint mil-civil airports are very common and they work well together, even if they have a QRA station on site. When the alarm goes off, the movement of all aircraft stops until the QRA aircraft have taken off, which is usually under a few minutes and then noirmal jogging resumes. Ireland is exceptional in not having a joint airport.
          How many of those civil-military QRA airfields have one serviceable runway?
          How many of these civil-military QRA airfields are emergency diversion airports for Transatlantic Civil Airliners?

          What's to stop an unfriendly from using a Civil Aircraft on a recognised flight plan from "declaring an emergency" crash landing on the one serviceable runway and rendering you QRA unserviceable until the one runway is back up and running. It was only last year that Shannon was closed for 2 hrs due to a Light Aircraft Incident.

          If shanon was to be used I would expect at least one of old Unused Runways be brought back into service as a backup just in case.
          It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
          It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
          It was a new age...It was the end of history.
          It was the year everything changed.

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          • #6
            One day the M20 will be finished and the fight for Shannon might end. Given the much larger market around Cork this will see airlines favour Cork over Shannon. As airlines move the fixed costs of the airport have to be carried by fewer and fewer, so begins a spiral. The airport, likes its twin in Gander came about because planes lacked the necessary range, it was a refuelling stop. It used innovation such as the invention of duty free shopping to try and counter the decline but even this is not enough for its passenger numbers.

            If the AC were ever to move some operations to an airport it helped to establish then it would need a secure area, the most likely area being on the NW side. This would mean some new taxiways to get the QRA plane to the correct position so it could start. Given the most expect this aircraft to be a Grippen or something similar this would entail a 1000m taxiway parallel to the runway. You don't want to have to taxi more than 3km to start your take-off role. Now here is where it gets interesting, the Grippen is design to operate under the BAS90 system of dispersed bases using highways. So even if it would be best to use the main runway, should it be blocked the taxiway could be sufficient for emergency operations.

            The advantage for Shannon would be they get a tenent which can provide a steady income for shared services such as atc, fire, security etc. This might be enough to keep some commercial,ops like UK flights and holiday charters. For the AC it would gain space, have fewer restrictions for flight ops and not have provide all airport services by themselves.

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            • #7
              QRA stations have operated with a single runway,with the parallel taxiway as a backup runway. I saw one such station in the US with a curved dedicated taxiway to the runway from the HAS. It was an old F-102 station, but it was still in use. The main barrier to joint operation was the need to have a NATO standard crash barrier permanently installed, but I'm led to believe that this can be dealt with by using a dismountable barrier.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                QRA stations have operated with a single runway,with the parallel taxiway as a backup runway. I saw one such station in the US with a curved dedicated taxiway to the runway from the HAS. It was an old F-102 station, but it was still in use. The main barrier to joint operation was the need to have a NATO standard crash barrier permanently installed, but I'm led to believe that this can be dealt with by using a dismountable barrier.
                Indeed and runway markings on parallel taxiways are still evident at many joint and former military now civilian airfields. Crash barriers/arrestors are also common and do not affect operations.
                I have operated at a joint civilian/military during an active QRA launch at Zaragoza. We were simply held in current position in taxi until the F18 pair was airborne. It works. There was no explanation offered nor was one expected. Joint civilian/military airfields are common and different rules apply. You can expect to become a second class citizen at short notice without explanation. A similar "hold position" without explanation at Rome Ciampiano resulted in a helicopter landing beside us with the then Pope walking the short distance to a waiting Italian Air Force A319.

                Even at Dublin or Shannon you can expect a wait or a go around if the resident rescue helicopter is launching on an active mission.

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                • #9
                  Or if french ATC decide to go on strike again.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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