Irish trawler 'given order to move on' by Royal Navy frigate

[Laners]

It's a rock that can't sustain human life and thus can not be claimed as sovereign territory .

[na grohmiti]

It's a rock that can't sustain human life and thus can not be claimed as sovereign territory .

However, Ireland recently carried out a baseline survey of our territorial waters, measured from whatever rocky outcrop was closest to land, rather than the mainland itself, But I thought UNCLOS sorted out Rockall years ago? The UK itself accepting that an inhospitable rock cannot support a 12 mile limit. While it's not in our patch, it's not in theirs either.

[Sparky42]

However, Ireland recently carried out a baseline survey of our territorial waters, measured from whatever rocky outcrop was closest to land, rather than the mainland itself, But I thought UNCLOS sorted out Rockall years ago? The UK itself accepting that an inhospitable rock cannot support a 12 mile limit. While it's not in our patch, it's not in theirs either.

The last time this flared up, London pretty much made it clear that they didn't want part of it, and that it was a Scottish decision to make an issue with Irish hulls, wouldn't surprise me if it's the same this time and someone in the SNP is trying to make a play for increasing their appeal in the Fishing communities, particularly as they are hammering Johnson's deal as a betrayal of Scottish fishing.

[EUFighter]

Would this have anything to do with the 6th of May?
There is an election this year in Scotland, this lets the SNP make a claim that they are fighting for Scottish fishermen.
If we want we have a diplomatic torpedo, we can let it known that we would veto any Scottish application to join the EU.

As for the legality, it is a common understanding that rocks cannot have a territorial water. That said the baseline definition is always a bit fuzzy, but the status of Rockall was sorted out otherwise the boundary of the whole EEZ would look very different.

[Laners]

I'm sure the EU would view an Irish veto of a Scottish application to join as against the EUs interests considering how much of the UKs fishing grounds would come back under EU control and make that big sticking point from the trade talks a mute point , although we do owe them one for not giving Ireland their vote for the next Rugby World Cup which they gave to France instead .

[Laners]

Would this have anything to do with the 6th of May?
There is an election this year in Scotland, this lets the SNP make a claim that they are fighting for Scottish fishermen.
If we want we have a diplomatic torpedo, we can let it known that we would veto any Scottish application to join the EU.

As for the legality, it is a common understanding that rocks cannot have a territorial water. That said the baseline definition is always a bit fuzzy, but the status of Rockall was sorted out otherwise the boundary of the whole EEZ would look very different.

It could be just an election stunt but I can't see the coastal /fishing community falling for it and the wider electorate might see it as Scotland doing the dirty work for their colonial masters in London, after all the UKs methods to claiming Rockall as being there's is pure conquering empire stuff and not an image the SNP would like to be associated with .

[EUFighter]

I'm sure the EU would view an Irish veto of a Scottish application to join as against the EUs interests considering how much of the UKs fishing grounds would come back under EU control and make that big sticking point from the trade talks a mute point , although we do owe them one for not giving Ireland their vote for the next Rugby World Cup which they gave to France instead .

Remember the SNP is the Scottish Nationalist Party, Scotland first!
The Scots will need friends inside the EU if they ever expect to be accepted, some nations will be not so welcoming. Those in the east would see it as endangering the amount of monies they receive, while others like Spain (and Italy lesser so) would see it as encouraging regions to break-away.

[EUFighter]

It could be just an election stunt but I can't see the coastal /fishing community falling for it and the wider electorate might see it as Scotland doing the dirty work for their colonial masters in London, after all the UKs methods to claiming Rockall as being there's is pure conquering empire stuff and not an image the SNP would like to be associated with .

Can Scotland make a territorial claim? It is not a sovereign nation merely a constituent country of the UK. And as such the power to make territorial treaties lies with London, even if they don't want to be involved. Thus it would be indeed "Scotland" doing the dirty work of their southern masters.

Because if indeed Scotland can determine their "own" territorial waters then their in theory would be nothing stopping them from banning English boats from their 12 miles zone!

[Flamingo]

It does seem, on the surface anyway, to just be Holyrood pushing the envelope to see what they can get away with, especially in the light of upcoming elections. I’d say long-term considerations are not part of anybody’s thinking.

[spider]

I posted this previously in another thread but worth a read...

https://afloat.ie/resources/news-upd...-ireland-wrong

[Sarsfield]

Wow! How long have I been away? When did Scotland become a sovereign nation? Oh it's not. Then it's a storm in a teacup. Scotland cannot make a judgement on surrounding waters. That is up to the sovereign government in London. And no actually you can't throw a claim around a pimple , sorry volcanic plug, in the Atlantic , especially as the closest landmass , as determined by UNCLOS is Donegal, Republic of Ireland. Just because a toothless Dept of Defence acquiesced in 1964 to the then second largest navy in the world does not been they have too bend over in 2021. Actually the Irish and British navies took it in turn to patrol Rockall waters to enforce EU Fisheries Legislation. When an independent Scotland reapplies to join the EU, they will need Irish support. Quid Pro Quo. Common fisheries policy re established. Rant over.

[ancientmariner]

However, Ireland recently carried out a baseline survey of our territorial waters, measured from whatever rocky outcrop was closest to land, rather than the mainland itself, But I thought UNCLOS sorted out Rockall years ago? The UK itself accepting that an inhospitable rock cannot support a 12 mile limit. While it's not in our patch, it's not in theirs either.

The Irish Maritime act 1959 laid down Straight baselines from which territorial Distances would be measured. It particularly affected coasts from Carnsore point westwards to Fanad Head area. It allowed us to enclose bays like Bantry bay , Galway bay and Donegal Bay. The East coast is generally measured from LWS due to less indented coastlines. The 2015 survey was to pin point the geographic points of the start and finish of a set of baselines and mark them with a survey station numbered plate. This was done about 2015.