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Irish trawler 'given order to move on' by Royal Navy frigate

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  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    Would this have anything to do with the 6th of May?
    There is an election this year in Scotland, this lets the SNP make a claim that they are fighting for Scottish fishermen.
    If we want we have a diplomatic torpedo, we can let it known that we would veto any Scottish application to join the EU.

    As for the legality, it is a common understanding that rocks cannot have a territorial water. That said the baseline definition is always a bit fuzzy, but the status of Rockall was sorted out otherwise the boundary of the whole EEZ would look very different.
    It could be just an election stunt but I can't see the coastal /fishing community falling for it and the wider electorate might see it as Scotland doing the dirty work for their colonial masters in London, after all the UKs methods to claiming Rockall as being there's is pure conquering empire stuff and not an image the SNP would like to be associated with .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Laners View Post
      I'm sure the EU would view an Irish veto of a Scottish application to join as against the EUs interests considering how much of the UKs fishing grounds would come back under EU control and make that big sticking point from the trade talks a mute point , although we do owe them one for not giving Ireland their vote for the next Rugby World Cup which they gave to France instead .
      Remember the SNP is the Scottish Nationalist Party, Scotland first!
      The Scots will need friends inside the EU if they ever expect to be accepted, some nations will be not so welcoming. Those in the east would see it as endangering the amount of monies they receive, while others like Spain (and Italy lesser so) would see it as encouraging regions to break-away.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Laners View Post
        It could be just an election stunt but I can't see the coastal /fishing community falling for it and the wider electorate might see it as Scotland doing the dirty work for their colonial masters in London, after all the UKs methods to claiming Rockall as being there's is pure conquering empire stuff and not an image the SNP would like to be associated with .
        Can Scotland make a territorial claim? It is not a sovereign nation merely a constituent country of the UK. And as such the power to make territorial treaties lies with London, even if they don't want to be involved. Thus it would be indeed "Scotland" doing the dirty work of their southern masters.

        Because if indeed Scotland can determine their "own" territorial waters then their in theory would be nothing stopping them from banning English boats from their 12 miles zone!

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        • It does seem, on the surface anyway, to just be Holyrood pushing the envelope to see what they can get away with, especially in the light of upcoming elections. I’d say long-term considerations are not part of anybody’s thinking.
          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

          Comment


          • I posted this previously in another thread but worth a read...

            Scotland is “within its rights” to threaten enforcement, and Ireland “hasn’t a leg to stand on” within Rockall’s 12-mile limit, Prof Symmons says.
            'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

            Comment


            • Wow! How long have I been away? When did Scotland become a sovereign nation? Oh it's not. Then it's a storm in a teacup. Scotland cannot make a judgement on surrounding waters. That is up to the sovereign government in London. And no actually you can't throw a claim around a pimple , sorry volcanic plug, in the Atlantic , especially as the closest landmass , as determined by UNCLOS is Donegal, Republic of Ireland. Just because a toothless Dept of Defence acquiesced in 1964 to the then second largest navy in the world does not been they have too bend over in 2021. Actually the Irish and British navies took it in turn to patrol Rockall waters to enforce EU Fisheries Legislation. When an independent Scotland reapplies to join the EU, they will need Irish support. Quid Pro Quo. Common fisheries policy re established. Rant over.
              Sarsfield

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              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                However, Ireland recently carried out a baseline survey of our territorial waters, measured from whatever rocky outcrop was closest to land, rather than the mainland itself, But I thought UNCLOS sorted out Rockall years ago? The UK itself accepting that an inhospitable rock cannot support a 12 mile limit. While it's not in our patch, it's not in theirs either.
                The Irish Maritime act 1959 laid down Straight baselines from which territorial Distances would be measured. It particularly affected coasts from Carnsore point westwards to Fanad Head area. It allowed us to enclose bays like Bantry bay , Galway bay and Donegal Bay. The East coast is generally measured from LWS due to less indented coastlines. The 2015 survey was to pin point the geographic points of the start and finish of a set of baselines and mark them with a survey station numbered plate. This was done about 2015.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  There are at least 2 containerised options out there

                  Atlas ACTAS https://www.atlas-elektronik.com/fil.../093_ACTAS.pdf
                  Thales CAPTAS https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...upport-vessel/
                  quoting myself but here is another containerised VDS option

                  Ultra Sea Lancer



                  of course we also could a USV with sonar (which means we have to have vessels large enough to carry them, crane/davit, etc)

                  or a ROV with ASW capabilities

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                    quoting myself but here is another containerised VDS option

                    Ultra Sea Lancer



                    of course we also could a USV with sonar (which means we have to have vessels large enough to carry them, crane/davit, etc)

                    or a ROV with ASW capabilities
                    With no disrespect intended, we can post all the links we want but until there is a political will to deal with any incursion into our sovereign territory, either by Sea or Air. we may as well replace the tricolour with one large white flag, visible from 200 miles out.
                    The recent budget displayed government commitment to the MRV/EPV/Blue-Green ship. You can be certain this will be the stick the NS and anyone who hopes for Naval progress, will be beaten with for the next 10 years.
                    DoD:"You asked for replacements for 3 old ships, we gave you 4 new ones!"
                    DF:"but they gave us no increase in capability over the ones built in the 1970s"
                    DoD:"That's not true, they have hybrid propulsion and bigger guns"
                    DF: "But we have no military grade sensors capable of seeing over the horizon or below the surface"
                    DoD: "Didn't Eithne have that?"
                    DF: "Well, yes, in 1984 it did.... but we have to replace that too"
                    DoD: "Well that's going to cost lots of money, so be careful what you wish for"
                    DF: "Any chance you could fix the pay?"
                    DoD: "Make up your minds now, do you want ships, pay or farkles"
                    Df "Can we have all?"
                    DoD: "NO!"
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                      With no disrespect intended, we can post all the links we want but until there is a political will to deal with any incursion into our sovereign territory, either by Sea or Air. we may as well replace the tricolour with one large white flag, visible from 200 miles out.
                      The recent budget displayed government commitment to the MRV/EPV/Blue-Green ship. You can be certain this will be the stick the NS and anyone who hopes for Naval progress, will be beaten with for the next 10 years.
                      DoD:"You asked for replacements for 3 old ships, we gave you 4 new ones!"
                      DF:"but they gave us no increase in capability over the ones built in the 1970s"
                      DoD:"That's not true, they have hybrid propulsion and bigger guns"
                      DF: "But we have no military grade sensors capable of seeing over the horizon or below the surface"
                      DoD: "Didn't Eithne have that?"
                      DF: "Well, yes, in 1984 it did.... but we have to replace that too"
                      DoD: "Well that's going to cost lots of money, so be careful what you wish for"
                      DF: "Any chance you could fix the pay?"
                      DoD: "Make up your minds now, do you want ships, pay or farkles"
                      Df "Can we have all?"
                      DoD: "NO!"
                      Absolutely

                      I remember reading an An Cosantoir article about an AD TEWT that was done in conjunction with Bofors/Swedish Army

                      They were given 3 equipment scenarios to complete the mission:
                      1 - as is
                      2 - small amount of additional expenditure
                      3 - Swedish levels of equipment


                      realistically, we aren’t going to be getting even 1 frigate in my lifetime

                      The threat is there and is happening (as you allude to getting DoD and Government to acknowledge that is a major issue).

                      going back to that TEWT, a modular containerised VDS is an relatively cheap option, that doesn’t mean new vessels are required, while providing some capability and utility in a VFM manner.

                      Comment


                      • Found that article

                        page 14

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                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          Sad to think that since then, our Air Defence capability has been reduced.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                            Sad to think that since then, our Air Defence capability has been reduced.
                            40mm’s, Flycatchers and Giraffe 40 (on 6x6) gone

                            more RBS70s, BOLIDE missiles, more COND, Giraffe MkIV (tracked) in

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                            • Another containerised sonar option - Sonac DTS

                              Patria SONAC DTS is a modern high performance sonar system for Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) operations.

                              Comment


                              • Goes without saying that any future naval vessel, both at home and in the rest of the EU, will have mission bays to fit such a setup.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                                Comment

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